My Holiday Bowl "Preview"
Bowl games are an interesting thing. They really don't matter. I will forever think that almost all bowl games have almost no impact on the college football landscape. They are glorified exhibition games. There is little link between bowl game performance and future performance. They impact recruiting a small amount. On rare occasion, it is a springboard for a future season. But in the end, bowl games exist to make money, to milk us college football fans out of even more money, and if all goes well, to entertain the college football fans.
This is why I'm looking forward to the Holiday Bowl. It should be one of the most entertaining bowl games of the year. If Oregon loses, who cares? And if our team wins, then we'll enjoy a fun win.
We all know what needs to happen to secure the win. Our offense needs to play a mistake free game. The defense needs to pressure Zac Robinson and make some plays. It will be a simliar gameplan that we've seen all season, and will come down to execution.
So, enjoy the game. Enjoy watching Nick Reed terrorize opposing quarterbacks, and Jeremiah Johnson's stiffarm. Smile as you watch Patrick Chung blow someone up, or Max Unger open a gaping hole in the Cowboy defense. Mourn that we only had one full year of Terrence Scott. And enjoy watching the rest of the seniors in their final game.
On Tuesday night, I will have a great time, and simply hope to watch a great football game. Enjoy the fact that this game means nothing, and hope for a playoff while you watch it.
GO DUCKS!
Comments
I will forever think that almost all bowl games have almost no impact on the college football landscape.
Although I can see why you would say this, the reason why I think this is mostly false is because of the extra practice time bowl games afford you. Those that go to bowl games get 2-3 extra weeks more of practice during the fall/winter than non-bowl game goers. Although it may not seem like a whole lot, but that extra time does help considerably in getting people prepared for next season.
Media coverage of games is important for all kinds of reasons. Recruiting is the most obvious but the other is increasing your “national profile”. For programs that aren’t USC, bowl games represent perhaps the only opportunity they get to present their program to a national audience.
Above all, the reason why bowl games matter is National Perception and as long as we have polls of humans determining who gets into the National Championship, teams need to do whatever they can to make sure they are seen in the “good light” of those polls…including winning games in late December, early January.
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on
Dec 28, 2008 9:24 PM PST
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When did the previous years bowl game...
affect the national championship the next year?
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on
Dec 28, 2008 9:45 PM PST
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Bowl games are all about perception and creating that “lasting memory” for the pollsters the following year. The higher you are in the polls to start the year, the better chance you have of making it to the national title game in scenarios where there are ties in the wins and losses. I would claim that your initial starting ranking is highly dependent on how you perform at the end of the year and what profile of win you had. Oregon with a win over a big, bad big-12 team at the end of the year ensures they stay in the top 25, perhaps moving up towards the top 10. For voters that may not follow the program (and you know tons of voters don’t), they need that one spark to remind them. Bowl games afford them that chance.
For instance, Notre Dame won their bowl convincingly against a bad team. There are a lot of votes that will think…“wow, good recruiting class, they are Notre Dame and they finally won that bowl game. Maybe they really are back on the uptick.”. If they lose that game, back to the gutters with them.
Voters also are less likely to drop someone late in the year unless they lose. Pre-season rankings, combined with bowl game results and some very basic analysis is all most voters do when they compile their rankings. If Oregon loses their bowl game, ranked in the 20’s somewhere then goes through the 09 season with one loss, they have to deal with being behind the other one loss teams late in the year.
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on
Dec 29, 2008 12:44 AM PST
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Yeah...
But then we can argue about how much that matters. When it comes to national championship games (really all that polls impact), I think that starting point matters little.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on
Dec 29, 2008 6:09 AM PST
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oh I think it matters a ton. If you have 5, one loss teams, all with similar strengths of schedule, how do they end up ranked at the end of the year? My contention is that most people look at the following factors
1) Where did they start in the polls (they aren’t going to jump someone unless the lose)
2) What has that teams track record been?
3) How good is their conference in recent memory
A great example would be Washington. If you take Washington and have them with one loss next year, where do they end up? They would end up possibly 5-6 depending on how many 1 loss teams are above them. Not because the didn’t do what they were supposed to do, but that they have a bad track record and won’t even be ranked to start the season. If Washington was already in the top 10 when the season started, they can easily take a loss and still be ahead of other one loss teams.
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on
Dec 29, 2008 11:33 AM PST
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But how much does that ever happen, or have an impact on the national title game? Sure, early season polls will be affected to some degree. But the previous years bowl game rarely make an impact on this, let alone that this would actually impact the title game. So, while some bowl performance affect the next years polls (if a lot of players are coming back), there are many more important factors that go into preseason polls.
It might actually mean something for Oregon this year in terms of polls, but they lose a ton on defense and offensive line, so most team evaluation will start all over again. On top of this, Oregon will most likely be between 15 and 25 next year. In terms of the national title chase, this won’t really make much of a difference. If USC loses, they’ll still probably be top 5. If they win, they’ll be top 5.
On top of this, because of the nature of bowl games, bad performances can be easily dismissed, while good performances can as well, with the loss of important players.
I also think that the UW example isn’t very good. They didn’t play in a bowl game this year, so while the preseason poll might come into play, their bowl performance obviously wouldn’t. On top of this, moving from the worst team in D1 to top 10 is bound to draw skepticism.
The only main example I can see of polls being significantly affected by bowl performances is the annual OSU crapping the bed in bowl games. But this was only significant because of the two performances in the national title game.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on
Dec 29, 2008 11:55 AM PST
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You are probably right about the UW example. I probably should have gone with Notre Dame as they actually went to a bowl game this year. They probably wouldn’t be top 25 next year even with the win in the bowl game but if they do go through the same scenario I outlined, they would be at the back of the pack of one-loss teams.
You are right about the national championship game result having little impact on the following years game…except for the fact that both teams will be highly ranked regardless of win or loss. The system we have now favors dynasties and teams that are good or relatively good over longer periods of time get more advantages. My point is that the bowl system overall directly impacts how the next season’s polls shape up at the beginning of the year because it leaves that lasting memory for voters that may not follow the teams. I’m willing to bet that the majority of voters don’t bother researching all of the D1 teams fully and then make an informed decision. More likely is that they check a few highlights, get a quick commentary from someone and jot it down. Bowl games help in that process because they create matchups across conferences and make better comparisons so that when voters check the highlights, they don’t live in their own familiarity bubble.
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on
Dec 29, 2008 12:21 PM PST
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Sure...Bowl games have some impact...
I’m just saying, that impact is incredibly insignificant, and will most likely never play a part in the only two poll positions that matter. I also would disagree with how people use Bowl games to define a team. I would say a majority of voters don’t.
I mean, look at last year’s bowl slate. There was not one meaningful result from last years bowl games (in the grand scheme of things).
Bowl games matter, to some extent, but due to the circumstances, the results of a bowl game can be easily dismissed. Oregon had a great win over USF that brought some optimism, but they also were blown out by BYU the year before. So what does it all mean? Well, not a lot.
But lets say Oregon wins and starts at 16 next year rather than 24 or on the cusp. Will this matter? USC starts at 3 instead of 6. Will this matter? Sure, they could. But a ton of things would have to happen, which is incredibly unlikely.
Bowl games are still important. I enjoy watching Oregon one last time. It brings money to conferences, and gives extra practice time. But the results of this game will have almost no impact in comparison with the rest of the season.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on
Dec 29, 2008 12:35 PM PST
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Also...
I agree on the practice. Practicing more is important. But when the bowl game happens, the practice has happened. It doesn’t matter if you go to the Rose Bowl or the Las Vegas Bowl. You still have roughly the same amount of practice. As long as you get to the bowl game, that’s all that matters, not the bowl game itself.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on
Dec 28, 2008 9:48 PM PST
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Of course bowl games mean nothing.
That’s why you make bets involving money or the wearing of embarrassing clothing.
Having said that, I think you make a lot of good points, but there’s something to be said for ending the season with a game that gives you an idea of where a program stands in relation to another that you don’t normally play. They’re good for taking measure.
by grimc on
Dec 29, 2008 10:59 AM PST
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Considering all the irregularities of the bowl game...
The weird travel, various events, time off, etc. I don’t think it’s a great way to evaluate a program. Regular season results are much more meaningful. It means something, for sure, but I don’t think it’s all that much.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on
Dec 29, 2008 11:09 AM PST
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the bowl games are awesome
And I certainly WOULD care if Oregon were to lose. I have been looking forward to the Holiday Bowl all month, and as a fan have a lot invested emotionally in this game. Regardless of how much they actually do tell you about the team (although I think it is a good indicator), they do affect polls next year; and the preseason polls have postseason implications. A conference’s performance in bowls also affects its reputation for next year, which is crucial for strength of schedule.
GO DUCKS
by coolconman on
Dec 29, 2008 12:10 PM PST
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Strength of schedule...
is only determined in the current season when it is computed by the BCS computers. So while it’s fun to talk about conference pride or bowl records, these aren’t really used when it really matters.
As far as the preseason polls, yes, in some circumstances they are affected by previous year bowl games, but this affect is marginal. If you’re then correlating that to preseason polls having an impact on postseason polls, well, that’s marginal as well. Considering that only the top 2 spots in polls really matter, the chances of a previous years bowl game affecting an important poll position for the next postseason are pretty astronomical.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on
Dec 29, 2008 12:24 PM PST
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it affects what fans and voters perceive as strength of schedule, which is important.
Preseson polls have a large affect on where your team is ranked throughout the season, which has implications in final BCS standings, as well as national perception of the team, media coverage, etc.
by coolconman on
Dec 29, 2008 7:31 PM PST
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While voter opinion is important...
Fan opinion is not. As polls only matter in the final poll, and even then, only the final two spots, previous bowl results pretty much never have an impact. I would say that 99% of voters look at what happened that year. In extreme cases, previous bowl results come into play, such as “I am never putting Ohio State in the top 2 because they f***ed it up the past two years.” But bowls seldom affect the strength of schedule when it matters.
I would also say that preseason polls have little to do with the postseason polls. I mean, just look at the preseason polls this season, and the final polls. There is pretty much no correlation between the two.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on
Dec 29, 2008 9:25 PM PST
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I would also say that preseason polls have little to do with the postseason polls. I mean, just look at the preseason polls this season, and the final polls. There is pretty much no correlation between the two.
I disagree. Look at the example of Penn State, a team ranked at number 22 in the pre-season polls versus another one-loss team in USC. Penn State had so much ground to make up where the one loss at Iowa killed them. Florida lost to Ole Miss but was so highly ranked, it didn’t ultimately effect their positioning nationally. If Penn State and Florida’s positioning are reversed to start the year, I would claim that Penn State would be going to the national championship game based on the polling. Florida, even with their “strength of schedule”, wouldn’t overcome the voter rankings. They “might” lose out and be the number 3 team (ala Oregon from a few years back) but they certainly wouldn’t be discounted at the end like this year.
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on
Dec 30, 2008 12:35 AM PST
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If Penn State and Florida’s positioning are reversed to start the year, I would claim that Penn State would be going to the national championship game based on the polling.
I totally disagree with this. Penn State had a lousy schedule compared to all other one-loss teams. There are a million reasons that Penn State is where it is. Preseason polls are waaaaay down the list.
On top of this, this is a very lousy hypothetical. Instead, lets look at a great example from last year. Which team has probably the most built in advantages over most others? USC. Yet, they started above Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, and Alabama, who all ended up with one-loss as well. USC ended up 5th. Alabama started barely ranked and was at #1 most of the season. So, I really think that preseason polls aren’t given that much importance. They obviously did not this year. On top of this, Florida lost to Michigan in the bowl game last year! So apparently bowl games can be dismissed very quickly for voters.
Furthermore, I think it’s incredibly simplistic to say that if this this was higher, they’d be higher now. Teams DO have hurdles to climb. Teams that are perceived as not as talented will have to have a better schedule, and do more on the field. Preseason polls reflect this perceived talent, as do postseason polls. I would say that the polls have absolutely nothing to do with it. Both polls reflect similar feelings in the voters.
From this year, it’s clear that many voters threw out their initial feelings, or else USC would be playing for a national title. Penn State had no claim because they didn’t have any true quality wins, and had the worst schedule of any of the big one-loss teams. USC dropped because of the weakness of the Pac-10 this year. Pollsters are obviously taking schedule and other factors into account.
This is what you should have said, “ALL OTHER THINGS BEING EQUAL, If Penn State and Florida’s positioning are reversed to start the year, I would claim that Penn State would be going to the national championship game based on the polling.” Unfortunately, nothing was equal, and rarely is. The better team, in both talent, and in on-field accomplishments, was ranked higher in the end.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on
Dec 30, 2008 6:58 AM PST
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it isn’t a lousy hypothetical in the slightest. It is absolutely true that voters are less likely to jump teams that haven’t lost if they are higher in the polls. So you are telling me that Oklahoma, Texas, Florida, USC, Alabama, etc all jump Penn State if they are ranked #4 to start the year with one loss? No way I buy that for a second. If anything the polls have taught us over the years, it is WHEN you lose that matters most and where you are ranked at the beginining. If you lose earlier in the year, it isn’t as big of a deal to come back at the end. If you lose at the end of the year, it is even harder to come back. If you start from the back of the pack in the polls, work and you lose one game, you go to the back of the line.
Look at Alabama this year as a great example. Here is a team that did everything it was supposed to do, won all their games, got to the top of the mountain and what do they do? They lose to Florida, another top 5 team in a close game. Who does Florida lose to? They lost to Ole Miss, nowhere near the caliber of an Alabama team. Because it happened at the end of the year, bama drops, Florida goes to the title game. Alabama goes to the back of the line. Do voters take into account SoS and out-of-conference play? Sure they do. It may even account for one spot here and there but it depends on where you start that determines initial perception.
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on
Dec 30, 2008 12:42 PM PST
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Yes...all 4 of those teams absolutely would have jumped Penn State.
They all jumped USC, who is both more talented, and had a better schedule than Penn State. If there is ever a team that would benefit from the inertia of polls, it is USC. And they did not. They also lost early, and it still didn’t get them to the title game. If anything, Penn State, due to perceived weakness, would be even more vulnerable to dropping with a loss.
It really doesn’t matter one iota where a team starts. It matters how they get there. If you looked just at the postseason poll for this year, and just look at the results of the games at the times, with no rankings, I think this years results are where they should be. Based on the schedules and results, Penn State is the 6th team, USC is the 5th, and Alabama is the 4th. We could argue all day long about Texas/Oklahoma, but I would say that those results had nothing to do with preseason polls, but mostly with the Texas and Oklahoma’s point differentials in similar opponents.
One last point on the whole “back of the line” thing. I think this idea is flawed and does not happen. Alabama did not move to the back of the line because they lost. First, they didn’t move to the back of the line. They moved to the middle, right where they should based on their resume over the entire season. They moved ahead of both USC and Penn State, who they started the season behind, so initial perception couldn’t mean that much. And this is what happens. There is a line for no-loss BCS teams, one-loss BCS teams, etc. When one team loses, they are re-evaluated in the previous line.
Lastly…there are many factors that go into rankings. Many, many, many factors. In some cases, previous rankings, intertia, whatever, can matter. But I’ve seen that happen less and less every year. And it certainly hasn’t made a difference the last few years on the only rankings that matter.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on
Dec 30, 2008 1:16 PM PST
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My short roundup that I wrote over at Moseley’s just now…
Yikes people. Where’d the gravity go?
These blowout predictions are completely unwarranted. Aside from SC, OK State may be the best team, or at least best offense we’ll face all year. Chip given at least a week to prepare, especially with a QB on a hotstreak is very, very promising… but you can’t forget Zac Robinson and Dez are getting over a week to prepare for our D too. Chances are they’ve been hitting the Pass Skeleton drills pretty hard.
For how good our rushing game is, their rush D isn’t really below average by any means. But, for how good their passing game is, our pass D is very, very below average. And for all the talk of us being familiar with the spread by way of practicing against it… what has the OK State D been practicing against all year?
The D will have to outplay what they’ve shown us all year, and the O will have to remain in true Chip Kelly form. The absolutely massive wave Masoli has been riding on for a month has been being ridden by Zac Robinson all year.
Oklahoma State is good. They, unfortunately, match up much in their favor against us. My prediction is, if we win, it’s not gonna be by >21 points. Not to say we won’t light up the scoreboard, I just don’t know if we pull away really.
I know, I know, I’m being kind of a sadsack on the blockparty here, but you gotta give OK State some credit, and you must remember that the football gods are ALWAYS listening!
Addicted To Quack [dot] com; Where the Shufelts, butthols, and like half of the population of Chicago roam...
by qrsouther on
Dec 29, 2008 12:19 PM PST
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Yup
75 pts is absurd. I do like the Ducks chances in this game however. The PAC 10 has some pretty good backs and none have had their way with us but I don’t think the Cowboys have seen anything like the Ducks running game in the pass-happy Big 12. If Masoli and our receivers connect so they can’t stack the box, we should be just fine.
Ducks 45
Cowboys 37
If you can't get your Dick Enright, get your Dick Harter
by Old Ducker on
Dec 29, 2008 2:55 PM PST
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Yep
If we get some of that Zone Read+Flanker screen in early on, we could be a damn efficient offense.
God I’m nervous! Show them some Pac-10 spread, Chip.
Addicted To Quack [dot] com; Where the Shufelts, butthols, and like half of the population of Chicago roam...
by qrsouther on
Dec 29, 2008 3:58 PM PST
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So...
So your basically saying that if the ducks blow out Ok st. and Masoli keeps playing as well as he has no one will take that into consideration come next season? Ok st. Is all the talk for one of the top ten teams next year. I think that the poll setters would remember that. Yeah duh what you do in the regular season is what gets you to the championship game, but finishing strong and getting better preseason position is also helps your cause for the next year. A strong showing by the kids that are going to be back next year is huge for what voters think. Look at ND, I dont think much of what they did to Hawaii, but It wouldn’t suprise me to see them in the polls next year because of it. If they loose that game, or dont beat Hawaii down no one even cares or even thinks twice about ND in the preseason polls. I higher ranking early helps alot if you have a slip up and need to make up for a loss.
by ducksfan on
Dec 29, 2008 9:48 PM PST
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Sure...
But we also got blown out by BYU…and that was quickly forgotten. If Oregon puts up 60+ points, it will only solidify that their offense is crazy good. But then people will doubt because we lose most of our offensive line. If Oregon wins, they will start probably around 15th in the country. If they lose, they will be in the top 25 or very close to it. Does this really matter? I don’t think it does.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on
Dec 30, 2008 6:39 AM PST
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sure it matters
The higher you can be ranked from the get go gets you more telivised games so the voters that see very little of the ducks get exposed more and more. The faster you can make it to the top the better off your chances are to be picked for a NC. If you have to make up ground on all of the other power house schools like by starting ranked 20th or higher that is just makes getting the top spot that much harder. If one of the big name schools gets upset your team needs to be in position right away to be able to take over that spot. If your team has to win a few extra games to get to the top rankings you may miss your chance to take over a top spot once someone looses. Thats why having a strong showing in our bowl will help greatly. If we dont most voters will think that the only reason we finished our season strong is because the PAC-10 is weak, but if we go and do what Oklahoma did to Ok st. then voters will take notice.
by ducksfan on
Dec 30, 2008 11:01 AM PST
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Oregon got destroyed by BYU in 2006.
And had a chance to be in the national title game. They were #2 in line for the one-loss teams to go to the national title game, because of the strength of schedule (which was apparently not affected by a 3-3 pac-10 record or Oregon’s blowout loss).
I guess I"m just saying, is that bowl games may have some effect on these things, but are obviously not a significant factor.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on
Dec 30, 2008 12:08 PM PST
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