Steve Duin doesn't understand basic logic
Basic logic has been around for quite a while. And so have the fallacies that many fall into, including the idea that correlation does not imply causation. Apparently Steve Duin decided to ignore these lessons in the most recent Oregonian piece with little logical backing, titled At UO, arena seats trump freshman beds. Now, we've been through all of this before, but I'd like to dive in one more time. Steve starts of his piece with this gripping narrative.
At the same time the University of Oregon is plowing $245 million into a new basketball arena and its underground parking garage, the university has informed 800 incoming freshmen that it can't find or afford housing for them on campus.
And he then ends it with another gem:
But right now UO isn't into full disclosure. In a January letter to the Legislature, Frohnmayer insisted "academic buildings, not athletic facilities, have been our major priority for the last decade." Of the $480 million in completed or developing projects, he wrote, "more than 75 percent has been for facilities that enhance the academic mission."
But Frohnmayer playfully didn't include the new arena, which may open before a few of those academic marvels. Toss in that $245 million and Oregon will soon be devoting half of its construction budget to its pampered athletes and boosters . . . and adding another 800 freshman to the ranks of the homeless in Eugene.
This is a pet peeve of mine, but if you're going to make these arguments, back them up with substance. There is no substance in this article, just emotionalism. Just because both of these things happened at similar times does not mean that one caused the other, or that these two issues are even competing. Yet, this classic Non Sequitur was the entire basis for the article. When did this become OK for a journalist?
I think we would all agree that it's too bad the freshman are not able to live in the dorms. This is very important to college life. And it is unfortunate that this was allowed to happen. However, to even claim that athletics trumps academics is patently false. This thinking totally ignores the basics of university funding sources.
There is no evidence that the "pampered athletes and boosters" success is coming at the expense of the general student body. Yet, these assumptions are made, because of a perceived inequality. And so we see the same articles, over and over, lacking any factual or logical basis.
UPDATE: For a bit more on this, see Dave's post below. I agree with what he said, the dorm crisis does need to be solved, though blaming athletics (without logic or basic facts on your side) will not solve the problem. And one other comment on the use of state bonds, I would say that bonds for academics would trump bonds for athletics, however, there are other factors in play, including the ability to pay those bonds back. Others may disagree, but I don't believe that the state should be funding these building projects.
0 recs |
13 comments
Comments
Well
I would think that the state should be funding academic projects, as it is a state institution.
But blaming athletics isn’t going to work. It has been well established that without a new arena plan in place, Mac Court was going to be condemnded by the fire marshal by the end of the decade.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
by Addicted to Quack on
May 27, 2008 9:12 AM PDT
reply
actions
0 recs
I would have less problem with state funding of academic institutions than I would their athletic wings. If the state was ever paying (and not just backing, which I don’t care about either way) for athletic stuff, that would be ridiculous.
To me, these entire issues are very separate. They have different funding, different budgets, etc. They aren’t even comparable. And to compare them on emotion alone is poor journalism. I guess its human nature to want what you don’t have, but the entire basis of envy in certain circles of the U of O is that university funding is a zero-sum game, which I entirely disagree with.
This type of thinking, and backing in print, will only exacerbate the issue of athletics versus academics.
by jtlight on
May 27, 2008 9:19 AM PDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Agree about athletics
Maybe for Portland State, but for major D-1 schools, you have to be able to get the donor support to fund those kind of endeavors.
State funding for academics is fine.
But I agree about the flaws in the logic of the zero sum game. For a big time program like ours, I think it makes people more likely to contribute. And I’d bet that most of the big time donors will eventually contribue to academics as well (whereas without athletics, they may not get into donating in the first place).
The bond cap is the only issue I have with state backing, but if the financial projections on the arena are solid, it shouldn’t make a difference.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
by Addicted to Quack on
May 27, 2008 9:24 AM PDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Isn't Duin a Beaver?
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
by Addicted to Quack on
May 27, 2008 9:30 AM PDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Bond backing could be an issue
considering the amount of debt already in play (178 million), and how the dorms renovations are going to be, and where funding for that is coming from. Do you know anything about the 10 year project in place?
by jtlight on
May 27, 2008 9:43 AM PDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
For a bit more on this...
Check out Jay’s blog post over at Duck Sports News on this topic.
Basically, this article was really, really bad. There are a ridiculous amount of things to think about when it comes to upgrading student living. Jay dives into it much deeper than I did here, so if you have some time, give that a look.
by jtlight on
May 27, 2008 1:51 PM PDT
reply
actions
0 recs
steve duin's column re UofO
what steve duin asked was a reasonable question about priorities. apparently it is Uof O’s priority to advnace football over students. its a fair quesion and by asking, duin is not saying that sports and students were competing directly or any of the other blather you toss about. here is a school that the state pays for as a school – you know , place of learning , not a football mecca—who admits a million students who may have mad finaicial commitments to the school, passed up other opportuntiies, or this was their chance to go to college and then tells them that tough luck, there are no places for them to live. freshman need to live on campus (ther are many studies on why) and if Uof O was not going to have places for them to live, they should not have admitted them. It puts the school at risk since parerents will legitimately ask why would I send my kid there? (declining enrollement will kill oyur sports programs.) it puts pressure on the housing market (ie rents will go up) making school even more expensive. it causes increased reliance upon police and other social services since those students will be on their own and the police will have to pick up the work that the school would have been doing re security and other services; and it really sends the wrong message. You think that the stadium is not in competiton? well, except,...
like the stadium, U of O knew in advance that they had no room just as they argued before the legislation that it was time to have a new stadium and they chose to advance getting funding for a new stadium instead of paying attention to the core oblligation to have a place of higher education. what you appereewntly do not “get” is that the school operates whether not football is there; the school doesn’t exist becasue of the football. you trash the school and you will trash the sports programs. short sighted thinking. why vilify duin when its the school, not the fans, not the students, not you and me, that screwed up?
by raisedto belive in truth on
May 27, 2008 6:27 PM PDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Why vilify Duin?
Because he masquerades as a journalist, and has no logical basis to the MAIN POINT of his article.
His column lacked any substance. Some of the questions you brought up should be brought up, but if you’re going to bash the athletic department, you need substance, logic, etc.
The lack of housing is a problem, but it’s not affected or related to the athletic department or the athletic budget. I would love to see evidence to the contrary. For more on this, pleas see the link above.
by jtlight on
May 27, 2008 8:17 PM PDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Can we make the upperclassmen move out of the dorms?
It seems to me that incoming freshmen should have priority if there are not enough dorm rooms to go around. The upper classmen, presumably, are better equipped to move into an off-campus apartment (they know their way around campus, they are accustomed to living away from home, etc.).
And if they do decide to demolish the Bean complex, I volunteer to stack the dynamite and light the fuse. I had a great time living in Caswell circa 1987, but let’s face it, that place is better suited for prisoners than students.
p.s. I like the new layout and features here at ATQ. (Nick and Brad, check out my profile picture for a good look at your smiling faces.)
by DavisDuck on
May 27, 2008 7:27 PM PDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Heh
I recognized Brad’s ugly mug in thumbnail form before I even read your comment.
by ntrebon on
May 27, 2008 8:04 PM PDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'll stand next to you
lighting the fuse to blow up Hamilton.
4th floor Spiller 2001. Sadly, Bean is even worse.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
by Addicted to Quack on
May 27, 2008 8:38 PM PDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
It's absurd how bad those dorms are
That one year in Moore Hall in the Bean complex was more than enough.
by robrun2 on
May 27, 2008 7:57 PM PDT
reply
actions
0 recs









