frustrated and encouraged
by gribbit1 on Sep 20, 2008 6:36 PM PDT
37 comments
well, that was a poor showing.
I had the opportunity to view my first CSN game today, as my beaver friends who have Comcast were out of town, and and allowed me to use their 16-foot projection screen.
I did not need to see this one in life-size HD.
The first reason we lost was because of a cheap, illegal, dangerous hit by the Boise State safety against Masoli. But it didn't end there.
The second reason we lost was because after Masoli went down, Chip Kelly and/or Mike Bellotti were every bit as stubborn running the ball as Andy Ludwig was in calling the bubble screen. It's clear that Harper has a long way to go to be a real QB. He's a running back in a direct snap formation right now. What surprised me was we never saw a conventional option from Harper. I can only guess that he hasn't been doing well with the lateral option play in practice. And speaking of bubble screens, they're the only pass play Harper should run for a while.
I was about to turn off the tv and leave when I heard Giansante say Thomas was on the field. "Well, let's see what he can do" I thought, and sat back down on the couch.
What he can do is a pretty damn good impression of Dennis Dixon. I can't remember who has the signature "d thomas=d dixon" but dude, you've got it right.
Thomas will make mistakes. He's going to throw a bunch of interceptions once defensive coordinators learn his tendencies. We ran pretty much the same play for him every down, too, and that won't work against pac 10 DBs, but if he can make an option pitch or a read-option mesh reasonably well, we're in pretty good shape.
But hey, he's a freshman. Don't get too comfortable. I see interceptions and fumbles in his future, and missed reads, some ill-advised sacks. But you know what? He looked better running this offense than Masoli, Harper, and Roper put together. Chip Kelly has proven that he can instill confidence, so I'm not worried that he'll let mistakes go to his head.
Thomas for QB. We'll lose some games, but we'll lose playing OREGON FOOTBALL again. At least, the kind that we played last year. Wouldn't that be awesome?
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It's awesome in theory until he cuts to his left, then his right, really quickly
And then John Boyett is running the offense.
Your friendly neighborhood placekicker.
by qrsouther on Sep 20, 2008 6:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
he would have to get taken out
by a low tackle from a DB in the previous game first.
Then, yes… Boyett for QB.
Still, I’m with Bellotti on the whole “the system is not what’s hurting our QBs” sentiment. They seem to get hurt more in the pocket than when they run. I’m glad that Thomas and Harper are the future, too, because they look much sturdier than Roper or Dixon. Of course, Costa looks sturdy too.
They've gone to plaid!
by gribbit1 on Sep 20, 2008 7:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chip Kelly needs to prove...
…that he can call a game.
by Yapos on Sep 20, 2008 10:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
His play calling is usually spirited...
…but today he waved a white flag. To quote the person sitting next to me in the third quarter, “I just want to bang on Kelly’s door and yell ‘HELLO!??’”
Embarrassing, embarrassing performance by the coaching staff today.
by Freeing Ray Schafer on Sep 21, 2008 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You found you're future playmaker`
But you’re absolutely correct he is a frosh and he’s going to make mistakes. But give him 2 years and some guys around him and the team will be dangerous. Boise State is a good team and they just came out fired up today.
The Artist Formerly Known as OrState GoBeavs
by The VD Special on Sep 20, 2008 10:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
give him two years?
he has one week!! Lol
by Ruprect on Sep 20, 2008 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
hahaha
Rec’d
The Artist Formerly Known as OrState GoBeavs
by The VD Special on Sep 21, 2008 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually I'm giving him one year.
with his skill set, which appears to actually be identical to Dixon’s, he can do it. and Dixon only had one year, basically, as well.
I certainly won’t write off this season, but I’m resigned to taking some lumps and going to the Las Vegas bowl or worse, if things turn out really badly. I’m skeptical that Roper will actually come back.
They've gone to plaid!
by gribbit1 on Sep 21, 2008 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent analysis...Thomas for QB
Even our wins this season have felt unsatisfying to me. I naively thought that any rushing qb could step into Chip Kelly’s system and run it like Dixon. And I naively thought that Belloti would insist on running the offense like he did last year.
I won’t mind losing games with the intrepid Darron Thomas, as long as we are relentlessly pursuing the nostalgic thrills of yesteryear!
Dennis, you were beautiful!
by Ruprect on Sep 20, 2008 11:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yesterday was the first time...
…that I really felt the offense was “back”. Even though we didn’t win, those 4th qtr. drives were vintage 2007, those bang-bang-bang-score drives
by inroywetrust on Sep 21, 2008 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haha...
A lot of this discussion is reminding me of post-spring game when people placed DT at the back of the bus, and started to scream that Harper was the future.
They both are the future. They are both play makers. They both have things to work on. The guys are true freshmen for Pete’s sake.
Go Duckies!
by JShufelt on Sep 21, 2008 9:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Quit with the logic and reason!
It has no place here!
--www.AddictedToQuack.com, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Sep 21, 2008 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they ARE both the future.
but Thomas is also the present due to the fact that he has a right arm that he is able to throw a ball with, and Harper may be a future receiver or running back. that was never so much a given as after this game.
They've gone to plaid!
by gribbit1 on Sep 21, 2008 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Masoli?
The game would have been totally different had he been in the game.
--www.AddictedToQuack.com, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Sep 21, 2008 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
true...
but Thomas still looks better at this point. I didn’t see Masoli make the same kind of reads and check-downs at Washington that Thomas did yesterday.
They've gone to plaid!
by gribbit1 on Sep 21, 2008 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true...
I’d feel OK with either. As long as there’s the threat of the pass, our offense should be decent. We had no threat of a pass for 2+ quarters, and that went very badly.
--www.AddictedToQuack.com, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Sep 21, 2008 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
One Loss Right?
Ok, just so I’m clear, I’ve read blame being placed on practically everyone from Bellotti to Aliotti to Harper to the Defense to the Offense to the playcalling. I’m surprised people are not trying to blame Roper for this one too. Damn him for getting injured!
I’m kidding of course but wasn’t it just a few short weeks ago that we were the best team in the land with the best defense and an offense that wouldn’t quit? I’m curious to find out more about what the ABR crowd thinks about Harper not being able to pass (and the coaching staff apparently knowing it and calling all running plays). DT looked great but Boise State’s defense was weak against the pass. I don’t think that 4th quarter really told us anything other than our receivers can make plays and DT’s arm is better than Harpers.
For those that are calling out Chip Kelly, think about Harper’s 2 interceptions and how they happend before you think he was making “unspirited” calls. Masoli went down very early in the game and didn’t give Chip a lot to work with obviously.
To address those calling out our defense, remember that our defense wasn’t supposed to be the best in the nation…it was the secondary by itself. I think a lot of people had questions about our D-line and linebackers going into the season and they got exposed with Boise State.
For those still in the ABR club, you are basing your knowledge of Darron Thomas on a spring game, and half a quarter in what Boise State must have thought was garbage time, at least at first. Their pass defense is no where near Purdue or any of the middle to high end Pac-10 schools. Roper is still 4-0 as a starter. Are people really saying that they would rather have an exciting loss than a gut it out, mistake-laden win?
I don’t understand, I really don’t.
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on Sep 21, 2008 11:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
forgot something important
Matt Evenson Stats
0/2 FG, 2/3 XPs
Not good for someone supposedly a dark horse for the Lou Groza Award
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on Sep 21, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
We lost by 5…
There were 9 points left on the field (including the missed 2 pt conversion)
--www.AddictedToQuack.com, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Sep 21, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
11 points?
wasnt there two missed field goals and two failed 2-point conversions, plus the missed extra point? thats 11 points….and the win.
Icey
by ChicagoQuack503 on Sep 21, 2008 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought there was only one 2 point conversion...
--www.AddictedToQuack.com, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Sep 21, 2008 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was so ready to mention that
But was too frustrated to write last night.
Your friendly neighborhood placekicker.
by qrsouther on Sep 21, 2008 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roper is 4-0 against crap...
who am I missing? I’m counting South Florida (highly overrated), Washington (terrible), Utah State (even worse) and Purdue (which we had no business winning— we won in spite of him, not because of him).
The kid does the best he can, but he’s just not cut out for this offense without some arm strength— it’s that more than the mobility issue that hurts him. He’s gotta chuck the ball downfield in order to utilize our speed at receiver, and he’s not physically capable of doing it right now.
Those calling out our defense SHOULD be calling out our secondary. They were the part of the defense that sucked yesterday. Ian Johnson had something like 36 yards. But we got rung up for hundreds of yards passing to ten or eleven different receivers. That had very little to do with the D line and linebackers. Allioti had Chung and Ward selling out against the run (and more often play action), and it killed us.
Thomas is the future, not because of a quarter, but because of all the traits he possesses. He has the arm, he has the reading ability, and he has the legs. Unless Masoli has it and we haven’t seen it yet, Thomas is simply the most skilled QB on the roster right now.
Based on what I’ve seen, I think Thomas gives us the best chance to win. I’m saying that if he makes a mistake and we lose, then yes, I’ll mortgage the present for the next three years because this team is not as good as advertised. I don’t want to delay his development and waste a year like we did with Dixon. Remember, if Dixon hadn’t been used in the USC game in 2004, he would be our starting QB right now.
They've gone to plaid!
by gribbit1 on Sep 21, 2008 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sadly
i do remember this. now he is sitting on the bench in pittsburgh. he could be pump faking his way to a second heisman trophy is the world worked the way ducks fans wanted it to
Icey
by ChicagoQuack503 on Sep 21, 2008 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
couple things
Actually, if you review the game film, it wasn’t Chung and Ward so much as missed assignments and reads from linebackers. Look at several of the touchdowns where linebackers were caught cheating up, not covering their men and getting caught with play action. Look at the short passing statistics. Very interesting breakdowns there. The secondary can’t do it all if others aren’t doing their jobs. At least 2 of their touchdowns came from blown plays by linebackers and even Giansante commented on it during the telecast. The secondary gave up some big plays yes but Boise State receivers made some great plays in the deep routes.
South Florida was not a crap team last year. They were ranked at number 2 in the nation, just like we were and had similar issues with injuries. It was a fairly even matchup coming in on paper and we pulled it out with a great performance by J-Stew and Roper having a solid game. Roper also had a helluva game against Oregon State last year in the loss
If the half a quarter of game time against Boise State is enough to convince you that Darron Thomas should be the full time starter now over Roper and Masoli, then we will just have a difference of opinion. I need to see more of him in game situations before I make that call. He was redshirted for a reason and him passing against a less than average Boise State pass defense does not a savior make.
Also, if Boise State hadn’t had that nice cheap shot on Masoli, I may be trying to talk the ABR Crew out of making Masoli the starter. He looked good in the very limited action he had. Would have made the DT situation a non issue
I believe it was Jtlight who said it best in a post a few days ago. This isn’t a rebuilding year and we shouldn’t treat it as such. Get DT some work now that his redshirt is blown but outright naming him the starter with so little a body of work seems premature to me.
--Dominic
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on Sep 22, 2008 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post
I think that we need to give both Masoli and Thomas some looks. Even Kelly said that Thomas could have come in and thrown 4 INTs. It would be entirely different had Masoli not gotten injured.
But what we know if that Chris Harper is not ready for the offense. He just can’t throw well enough. Late in the 2nd quarter, that horrifically thrown interception sealed his passing fate.
Thomas came in and hit the passes down the field that he needed to. Masoli may have done the same. We’ll throw them both out against Wazzu and see what happens.
--www.AddictedToQuack.com, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Sep 22, 2008 5:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to agree to disagree, as you suggested,
about the defense. You are right that the LBs blew plays, but they never should have been in coverage in the first place, if you ask me. They really had no business covering the TE and slot receivers in this game. The whole defense should have been in a nickel or even dime formation for the second half of this game, especially if the line was playing as well as Bellotti said it was. So maybe I need to revise my assessment: The DBs didn’t suck so much as Aliotti did.
I was never impressed with South Florida, who I saw several times last year, or when I saw them play this year.
I definitely think Masoli should play. I just have more faith after what I saw from Thomas. He looks like the more skilled QB to me. I never said Thomas should be the full-time starter, though. However, I think he should get the most reps, given what I’ve seen of both him and Masoli.
They've gone to plaid!
by gribbit1 on Sep 22, 2008 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
If you want to be successful, your LB’s have to at least cover the TEs and RBs.
The plays where the LBs blew plays (at least after BSU went up 17-6) were plays that should have been made. Awful plays on play action. Horrible switching on man coverage. The big plays that ended up scoring the 24th and 31st points I would not blame the coverage on. Our Linebackers (and TJ Ward) acted like they’ve never seen a freaking play action and blew their assignments.
I covered the long pass to Perretta more in this other thread, but that was simply a case of poor switching on simple man-coverage.
If Oregon defense wants to be successful, they need to be able to handle play action and handle man switching. The ineptitude on those plays had very little to do with coaching/play calling. That rests solely on the players.
It’s easy to blame the D-coordinator, but it’s flat out wrong for the majority of this game.
--www.AddictedToQuack.com, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Sep 22, 2008 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will make a correction to what I wrote...
The breakdowns don’t rest soley on the players. The coaches have had problems. But the majority of the majority of the blame (in the latter half of the 2nd quarter and later) lies with the players, who should be able to make those plays.
--www.AddictedToQuack.com, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Sep 22, 2008 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's something I just thought of...
TJ Ward is starting for the first time in his career. Sean Paysinger is starting for the first time in his career. Same with Talmadge Jackson. We have several other inexperienced backups that play big minutes. These guys have probably never had to deal with an under center offense, other than the scout team. Think about it, UW, USU, and Purdue all run primarily out of the shotgun. Could we chalk down these blown coverages to nothing more than inexperience?
by inroywetrust on Sep 22, 2008 12:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That could be a very likely explanation.
Ward was fooled a couple very important times by the play action. Jackson did a decent job at corner, though isn’t quite ready to be on his own as Thurmond is. I didn’t see a lot of Paysinger out there, but there was a breakdown in communication between Casey Matthews and the secondary in the long pass that ended up being the backbreaker.
Overall, a lot of blown assignments on the defense. It was the first time they’ve seen much play action all year, and they bit hard. They will learn, but they need to quickly.
--www.AddictedToQuack.com, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Sep 22, 2008 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
*Spencer Paysinger
I don’t know if starting itself matters, but Spencer Paysinger and TJ Ward played almost most of the game in all 3 of those games. TJax3 also has made plays.
Inexperience doesn’t seem, to me, like the primary problem. It is possible thought that the whole “first meaningful start” thing got to their heads… I couldn’t know though. I think it’s just flukishly bad breaks (Casey Matthews covering a deep ball Flanker… what the hell?)
Your friendly neighborhood placekicker.
by qrsouther on Sep 22, 2008 7:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant this season, not that game
We hadn’t faced a team that ran their offense primarily from under center
by inroywetrust on Sep 23, 2008 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh wait sorry
I misread your post entirely. I thought you were trying to say that none of them, although seeing Shotgun in the first few games, I thought you meant it was starting against it. Whoops. Sorry man my bad.
Your friendly neighborhood placekicker.
by qrsouther on Sep 23, 2008 6:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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