Help me with the BlogPoll!
by David Piper on Oct 6, 2009 8:24 AM PDT
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Alright, so I've had lots of feedback on the blogpoll ballots, so lets try and work together this week.
Remember, this is a resume based poll, so no voting in Oklahoma because, well, they don't have a resume. Give me your thoughts in the comments.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or the Addicted To Quack Moderators. FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable Oregon fans.
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If we're going resume based...
We aren’t allowed to rank a one-loss team above an undefeated team, IMO. I know, cupcake schedule, undefeated, harrumph harrumph, we only lost to boise state, la la la. As far as I’m concerned, if we’re going by resume, winning all your games is better than winning all but one. So, let’s look at the undefeated teams:
1. Alabama (5-0) – That win over Virginia Tech is looking better and better, and we shouldn’t overlook that 28 point win over Arkansas, whose only losses are to Alabama and Georgia.
2. LSU (5-0) – I thought LSU was gonna lose last week, so they get a jump up after the win over Georgia. They should get some credit for traveling across the country to get a win in Seattle, even though we really have no idea if Washington’s any good or not.
3. Boise State (5-0) – Win over Oregon, the rest of the schedule is just as crappy as Florida or Texas.
#4’s tough. Should it be Florida or Texas doing what good teams should do and dominating crappy teams, or Iowa’s win over Penn State, or South Florida’s win over Florida State? I think Florida State’s pretty overrated, and USF without Matt Grothe, even though they’re winning, has much more to prove before they garner a high ranking. So how about:
4. Texas (4-0)
5. Florida (4-0)
6. Auburn (5-0) – Wins over Mississippi State, West Virginia, and Tennessee. Another big game for Gene Chizik’s team against Arkansas.
7. TCU (4-0) – Win @ Clemson, big wins ovr crappy teams.
8. Cincinnati (5-0) – Best win @ Oregon State. Okay then.
9. Missouri (4-0)
10. Iowa (5-0) – You beat Northern Iowa by 1. Your Penn State game is moot.
11. Wisconsin (5-0)
12. South Florida (5-0)
13. Kansas (4-0)
There ya go. Undefeated teams are, and should be, the top 13. Now the one-lossers:
14. Virginia Tech (4-1) – Only loss is to #1 Alabama, the Hokies will rise up the rankings when the weaker undefeated teams fall.
15. Oregon (4-1) – Only loss to undefeated Boise State.
16. Penn State (4-1) – Only loss to undefeated Iowa at home.
17. Miami (3-1) – Only loss to Va. Tech, wins over Oklahoma, Georgia Tech, Florida State.
18. Nebraska (3-1) – Only loss to Va. Tech also, and they destroyed the three HS teams they’ve played so far. Big game Saturday against Mizzou.
19. Georgia Tech (4-1) – Only loss to Miami, biggest win over North Carolina.
20. USC (4-1) – Best win over Ohio State, ugly loss to Washington is keeping the Trojans low.
21. Ohio State (4-1) – Only loss to USC. Can’t rank them above the Trojans, so they go here.
22. Oklahoma State (4-1) – Beat Georgia, only loss to Houston.
23. South Carolina (4-1) – Only loss to Georgia, best win over Ole Miss.
24. Stanfurd (4-1) – Loss to Wake Forest, convincing wins over Washington and UCLA.
25. Houston (3-1) – Win over Oklahoma State, ugly loss against UTEP, but still a better resume than Ole Miss (loss to South Carolina, beaten no one notable) or BYU (win over Oklahoma, ugly loss to Florida State).
My two cents. Well, maybe it’s like 50 cents.
It's spelled "T-A-K-O-T-U-E-S-D-A-Y-S-!-!-!."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
I have a hard time agreeing with you about not being able to rank a one loss team
above a zero loss team. I mean, Kansas has beaten NOBODY. How dowe know they’re any good?
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Oct 6, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree. This has gotten worse and worse. Teams are now encouraged to schedule NOBODY in their non-conference scheduling. If you schedule 3 or 4 games you could lose, and go 3-1 in those games, you get ranked below a team that scheduled 3 or 4 guaranteed wins. At least you know who the 3-1 is. You are just guessing trying to figure out how good the 4-0 team is that hasn’t played anyone.
Guy behind me at Autzen says "why do the fans yell 'OOO' when we are on D?" He then proceeds to yell "DEEEEEEEE" on every defensive play for the rest of the game. As Carlos Mencia would say, "Dee DeeDee".
by MarineCorpsDuck on Oct 6, 2009 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions
I don’t have a problem with a 4-0 or 5-0 team being ranked this high at this point in the season. If they aren’t for real, they’ll lose at some point.
It's spelled "T-A-K-O-T-U-E-S-D-A-Y-S-!-!-!."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
Right…but the 3-1 team will probably lose again, too. I guess I just respect a team that schedules a hard out of conference schedule and goes 10-2 more than a team that schedules soft and goes 11-1. I think it’s just my preference. If you don’t give those teams a benefit or incentive for doing that, EVERY team is going to schedule cupcakes in their nonconference games because there is no upside to scheduling tough. The nonconference games would just suck then. Imagine if every really good team started with Portland State, then Utah State, then Idaho, followed by San Jose State.
The more teams are rewarded for being 4-0 or 5-0 regardless of their schedule, the more of this we’ll see. I guess I just prefer seeing USC vs Ohio State, Georgia vs ASU, etc more than seeing Florida beat Portland Community College Rock Creek Campus 152-0.
Guy behind me at Autzen says "why do the fans yell 'OOO' when we are on D?" He then proceeds to yell "DEEEEEEEE" on every defensive play for the rest of the game. As Carlos Mencia would say, "Dee DeeDee".
by MarineCorpsDuck on Oct 6, 2009 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions
I understand that
but this is a RESUME based poll. There’s nothing I can say that makes a loss better than a win. To channel my inner Herm Edwards, “You play to win the game.” Going away from that fact, IMO, is bringing other factors other than pure on-field resume.
It's spelled "T-A-K-O-T-U-E-S-D-A-Y-S-!-!-!."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
Doesn’t the resume include the teams you’ve played?
Guy behind me at Autzen says "why do the fans yell 'OOO' when we are on D?" He then proceeds to yell "DEEEEEEEE" on every defensive play for the rest of the game. As Carlos Mencia would say, "Dee DeeDee".
by MarineCorpsDuck on Oct 6, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
It does, but if a resume includes a loss, it’s worth less than a resume that does not include one. I’m not disagreeing with you BTW, I agree that Virginia Tech, USC, Oregon, and Ohio State are better teams than Kansas, TCU, Wisconsin, and South Florida. When it comes to this particular poll though, I think it’s important to keep the thought that the goal of sport is to win whatever game is placed before you. And until voters make a change like this and we end up with a TCU-Boise State Nat’l Championship game, there won’t be any change in the BCS.
It's spelled "T-A-K-O-T-U-E-S-D-A-Y-S-!-!-!."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
I disagree
Just like in life, sometimes tougher things that failed are still looked upon better than easy things that did not fail. In this case a 1 loss team could still be better than a NO loss team if the competition was better. I see your point, but the argument is flawed in my opinion
"I used to play sports. Then I realized you can buy trophies. Now I'm good at everything." - Demetri Martin
I get what you are saying. All I’m saying is that if win/loss, regardless of who you’ve played, puts you at the top, then no decent team should schedule a game that they might lose. They should schedule 4 super easy home games, otherwise they are putting themselves at a disadvantage by starting the season low and having to work through the polls. Yes, Kansas will probably lose a game, but the teams with the tough schedule will too. Kansas (example) will have 1 less loss at the end of the season. If that’s the criteria, fine, but then people cannot complain about teams scheduling soft.
Guy behind me at Autzen says "why do the fans yell 'OOO' when we are on D?" He then proceeds to yell "DEEEEEEEE" on every defensive play for the rest of the game. As Carlos Mencia would say, "Dee DeeDee".
by MarineCorpsDuck on Oct 6, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions
It's just a tricky situation
and the problem is in the whole BCS system. You can’t punish the players for going out and winning five straight games. They didn’t make the schedule. In a perfect world, two teams would go undefeated through a tough schedule and play in the BCS Nat’l Championship game. It’s good business for athletic departments to schedule soft and hope the teams that schedule tough lose, which is how this season has gone thus far. You can’t get mad at athletic departments for doing their jobs, which is put their teams in the best position to win championships and make money. The small schools won’t stop scheduling big teams because they need the payouts to try and improve their team’s chances of winning through facilities and recruiting. The whole idea of voting is just silly.
It's spelled "T-A-K-O-T-U-E-S-D-A-Y-S-!-!-!."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
There’s nothing I can say that makes a loss better than a win.
If a resume includes a loss, it’s worth less than a resume that does not include one.
I strongly disagree with both of these statements.
First off, I think that there are many losses that should be looked on favorably than wins a theoretical win. IMO, the point of using the resume is by using the games played to evaluate the teams, not future assumed success. The point of the BlogPoll is to ignore the fact that Oklahoma is usually very good and has lots of talent, etc. and look at what actually happened on the field.
As to your second statement, let’s just look as Kansas vs. Virginia Tech. I don’t care what the win/loss is, based on the play that’s been seen on the field, VT is the far superior team.
I guess this all comes down to how you define resume. I see it to mean, all aspects of play that we’ve seen, while you seem to take that to mean wins and losses only.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Oct 6, 2009 12:45 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Look. I’m a firm believer in that you can take good things away from a loss. There can be losses that can be considered “good” losses where you looked like a good team and just came up on the wrong end of the scoreboard. But it’s a loss. You were one of two teams on a field and finished second. Is it fair? No. Would Kansas beat Alabama? Probably not. But Kansas hasn’t played Alabama, so it’s not fair to dock them points for something they haven’t done. They’ve won every game they have played this year. And it’s not fair to put them at 20. What if they win the Big 12, and don’t get to play for the National Championship because they’re behind one-loss Virginia Tech and USC teams because they didn’t get any respect for playing a soft non-conference schedule?
It's spelled "T-A-K-O-T-U-E-S-D-A-Y-S-!-!-!."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
It’s totally fair. Kansas has done absolutely nothing. Their resume is (as Gorby pointed out below, and I’m gonna take this one step further) basically like saying, hey, we’re awesome, because we were great at a few fast food jobs, while VT has succeeded on the big stage once, and failed once. In my mind, the VT resume is stronger, because resume isn’t just about wins and losses.
I could care less if Kansas has won all their games, if it hasn’t been of consequence. Teams shouldn’t get much credit for beating shitty teams, just as teams shouldn’t get penalized for losing to good teams, if done in a respectable manner.
As far as your hypothetical, that assumes a whole lot, and seems to be mixing our poll methodology right now, with other poll methodology. If Kansas were to win out, their resume would be stronger than VT’s. But as of right now, that’s not the case.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
You're making complete sense, I was just thinking differently when I made my rankings.
I could do another one based on who I think was the best team, and which losses were “good” ones, so on and so forth. Meh, I don’t care that much, it’s a flawed system and it sucks.
It's spelled "T-A-K-O-T-U-E-S-D-A-Y-S-!-!-!."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
hahaha, yup. rankings are super-duper pointless. We have no losses in Pac-10 play, and that’s all that matters.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
Hypothetical
Let’s think of this in terms of a REAL resume.
Person A: He’s been the “CFO” of three mom and pop retail stores in Dinkyville, Idaho and then moved up to the big time as Controller for Jimbo’s Hot Dogs, a fast food chain located primarily in North Dakota
Person B: CFO of a mom and pop but then moved up to Executive Financial Officer of three Fortune 500 companies. He was fired from the first one because he forgot to staple a TPS report properly, but has been successful at the last two.
I don’t know about you, but I’m taking Person B every time.
I feel the need, the need...for speed!
by Gorbachav5 on Oct 6, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 3 recs
Those DAMN TPS reports!!!
"I used to play sports. Then I realized you can buy trophies. Now I'm good at everything." - Demetri Martin
i could never support someone
who doesn’t take a tps report seriously
including stapling patterns
FOR SHAME
by Bill Musgrave on Oct 7, 2009 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Exactly
Virgina Tech and Miami should be in the Top ten, both schools have quality wins against quality opponents, and their lone losses came to VERY good teams.
Team A:
4-0: Beat Northern Colorado, UTEP, Duke, Southern Miss
Team B:
4-1: Beat #6 team, #18 team, and 2 unranked BCS conference teams, but lost to a top 10 team on the road.
Who has a better resume? Who deserves a higher ranking?
If you look at the coaches poll, Team A (Kansas) is ranked above Team B (Oregon). If the answer is team A, then the Ducks need to schedule all home games against patsies and just pile up 4 wins before the conference season starts.
Guy behind me at Autzen says "why do the fans yell 'OOO' when we are on D?" He then proceeds to yell "DEEEEEEEE" on every defensive play for the rest of the game. As Carlos Mencia would say, "Dee DeeDee".
by MarineCorpsDuck on Oct 6, 2009 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions
While I understand your point, Oregon didn’t beat the #6 and #18 teams. They beat two teams that are currently unranked, and I think that we need to look at how good we think the teams actually, rather than how good we thought they were. However, there’s also something to be said for the strength of the team when they were beaten. For example, Oregon right now if very different from the Oregon that BSU beat.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
Yep. As long as there’s no playoff, this will continue to be an art, and not a science. I do think that over the past several years, since SOS was removed from the BCS formula, that more and more teams are just starting to schedule soft. What is the upside to scheduling how we did this year? If we started with Portland State or Utah State at Autzen instead of BSU, we could be 5-0 right now and ranked higher. I dread the day that there are NO good nonconference games to watch.
Guy behind me at Autzen says "why do the fans yell 'OOO' when we are on D?" He then proceeds to yell "DEEEEEEEE" on every defensive play for the rest of the game. As Carlos Mencia would say, "Dee DeeDee".
by MarineCorpsDuck on Oct 6, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
SOS is the ONLY component in the BCS computers. Margin of victory was removed.
I think this is crap. I think that computer rankings should be able to use margin of victory, yards per game, yards per play, success rate, points per play, and any other metric that they want. Limiting the computers is just f***** stupid and makes them meaningless.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
But without limits, the computers will RULE THE WORLD!!!
It's spelled "T-A-K-O-T-U-E-S-D-A-Y-S-!-!-!."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
I meant that it used to be it’s own component of the BCS formula, not included in the computer rankings.
2000: http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/pdf/bcs_2001.pdf
Note that the 5th column from the right is “Schedule Rank” and the explanation in the notes below the chart.
2007: http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/pdf/bcs_120207.pdf
Notice in the 2007 one that there is no longer a “Schedule Rank” column.
I don’t remember when they took it out, I just remember it being removed as it’s own component.
Guy behind me at Autzen says "why do the fans yell 'OOO' when we are on D?" He then proceeds to yell "DEEEEEEEE" on every defensive play for the rest of the game. As Carlos Mencia would say, "Dee DeeDee".
by MarineCorpsDuck on Oct 6, 2009 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions
It was removed in 2004, according to rivals.com (The Computers section, 3rd paragraph).
Guy behind me at Autzen says "why do the fans yell 'OOO' when we are on D?" He then proceeds to yell "DEEEEEEEE" on every defensive play for the rest of the game. As Carlos Mencia would say, "Dee DeeDee".
by MarineCorpsDuck on Oct 6, 2009 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions
I think this is crap. I think that computer rankings should be able to use margin of victory, yards per game, yards per play, success rate, points per play, and any other metric that they want.
I disagree. I think margin of victory is taken into account in the human polls. I think the coaches have enough incentive to run up the scores. They don’t need any more reason to do so.
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
But it’s not just about margin of victory. It’s about the fact that the computers right now are very hamstrung to the point of being stupid.
Good rankings would throw out data that was in games not considered “close.” There should be a variety in the computer rankings, but there isn’t now, because the BCS wants to micromanage everything.
Let the computer rankings do what they want, or don’t use them. Or use the strength of schedule ranking they used to.
Long story short, the BCS is stupid.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
We don't, and they're probably not.
But, if it’s resume based and not talent based, a resume with no losses is always better than a resume with one loss.
It's spelled "T-A-K-O-T-U-E-S-D-A-Y-S-!-!-!."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
I have no idea waht to do with Houston
Sure, they beat two good teams, but then they lost to UTEP, who had 56 total yards against Texas… But, their wins are better than a lot of other teams.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
But how good is Texas Tech really?
They’ve really beaten a who’s who of nobody, North Dakota, Rice, and New Mexico, and lost to the only quality schools thus far on their schedule (Texas, and Houston). Granted Houston theoretically has no business beating any Big XII school based on recruiting advantages. UTEP? I think it just goes to show that every team needs to show up every week and bring their A-gameeven against UTEP.
I think it’s not Texas Tech that’s necessarily a good team, but their system gives them a chance to win every game, and that makes them dangerous.
It's spelled "T-A-K-O-T-U-E-S-D-A-Y-S-!-!-!."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
The team that I have the most trouble with is Iowa
5-0 with quality wins, over Penn State, Arizona and in state rival Iowa State ( I know what you’re thinking but rivalry games should be given special consideration) but the Northern Iowa and Arkansas State are real head scratchers.
and these are the teams i'm least worried about having high in a poll this early
cuz they’re bound to put up a crap game against a good opponent and get beat by 25.
It's spelled "T-A-K-O-T-U-E-S-D-A-Y-S-!-!-!."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
On the other hand
They do find a way to win the close games, and that is part of the “IT” factor that makes me think that Iowa has a real shot in the Big 10 this year, despite playing a little closer than they should against “inferior” opponents, they find a way to win. Reminds me of a certain Ducks team from the early part of this decade.
Plus you have to take into account your system comment about TT – I doubt Iowa is going to blow anyone out because of the way they play in the Big 10. Their games are going to be a lot closer and lower scoring. That doesn’t necessarily give them a pass against terrible schools, but it does explain some of the close scores.
I feel the need, the need...for speed!
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