The Oregon defense: better than they're getting credit for

Per the football outsiders link, OSU has faced two teams that have better defenses in the eyes of FO (Iowa and PSU) and Oregon has not faced a defense as good as OSU’s (in FO’s eyes).

But I am sure I am not taking account the number of plays Oregon is running.

i never understand why some fans get so offended by the thought’s and opinions of the other fan base. who gives a crap what we think of your defense? it’s not going to matter come jan 1 anyway?

i personally, don’t think your defense is great. they’re good, they’re fast, but they’re not great. you can throw out all the fancy statistics and numbers you want, but at the end of the day, the most important number their is — is the number of points your opponent puts up. this year, you’ve given up 24, 33, 36, 41, and fifty freaking one. great defenses don’t give up 51 points… to anybody, regardless of time of possession, ypc or whatever. yeah, the oregon d has had some great games, but they’ve also displayed some inconsistencies…

I finally “got” this concept yesterday. Oregon’s high paced offense gives their opponents more possessions than they would get if Oregon played a ball control offense. Giving your opponents more opportunities means you are going to get scored on more. There’s no way around that.

Oregon’s game plan is the berserker model. Kill as many of the enemy as quickly as possible even if it means taking more risks to you own safety. As long as you kill more than you lose, you get the W.

Wins come when your abilty to stop your opponent, plus your own ability to score exceeds that of your opponent.

Does the Defensive ranking only take into account total yards and points given up? As the post details, that may not be the best measure for assessing the effectiveness of Oregon’s defense.

So Dave is really Jim… huh?

http://www.thebuckeyebattlecry.com/?p=4219

Not sure how the the football transitive property gets applied through statistical rankings, but… OK.

this is a good match up for the Ducks offense. i live in Ohio and i have watched almost every Ohio State game for the past four years. Their defense has struggled against almost every spread offense they have faced. a couple of years back when Illinois still knew how to run a decent spread Juice Williams and Rashard Mendenhall punished the Buckeyes defense all day long. They have struggled against Navy and Purdue. Florida and LSU ran the spread well; but not nearly as well as Oregon will and they both bitch slapped TOSU’s defense.

encephalopath and dvieira,
Please remember that it’s 2:18 in the eastern time zone and the
beer is starting to have an effect.
I grew up on the Ohio State campus and went to school there.
Some of my neighbors are former OSU players.
The preceding statements were meant to shed light on my
background concerning Ohio State football.
I’ve been at the last 2 Ohio State – Oregon State games as
well as the last Ohio State – Oregon game in Ohio Stadium.
Are you guys aware that Belotti interviewed for the Ohio State
coaching job in 2001 before Tressel got the job?
encephalopath, I wish could bring video but my DVR
decided to take a vacation a week before the michigan game
and hasn’t come back yet.
My fellow Buckeye friends all say that Oregon has never beaten
Ohio State. I say that I’m afraid of the law of averages catching up
with my beloved Buckeyes. I also point out that this is 2009 and that
past records don’t have anything to do with this game. I can’t believe
how some CFB fans don’t get the fact that THIS IS WHY YOU PLAY
THE GAME ON THE FIELD!
While I don’t agree at all with Blount being allowed to play again,
I admit that he adds a dimension to the Duck offense I hate to see.
His ability to run isn’t the issue, it’s his blocking ability on pass plays
that concerns me. He brings the size, durability, and blocking ability
that cold weather teams need late in the season. SEC teams will never
understand this as they don’t play in snow and freezing rain.
Blount sat out the last 10-1/2 games for Oregon and this means he
is hungry and fresh for the Rose Bowl.
As for Masoli, he scares the hell out of me. I’ve been fortunate enough
to see John Elway, Drew Brees, Troy Smith, Vince Young, and Tom Brady
play live. If Masoli ever gets the patience to sit in the pocket and wait
for his primary to come open, he will be up there with Plunkett, Palmer,
Leinert, and Jake Locker in Pac 10 history. I’d bet $100.00 on it.
e&d, It’s almost 3:00 AM and I have to work tomorrow. I’ll be back
tomorrow night or Sunday morning. You guys have a good night
and I hope you get laid tonight if that’s what you’re looking for.
“Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son” – Dean
Wormer, Animal House
“But it’s a hell of a way to go through college” – J. Ferris
My college room mate’s response to our boss when he
was late to work one morning after we had been out
bar hopping the previous night.
I miss my youth more than my wife will ever know!

jtlight, mattdaddy, and BaB…thanks for hitting on the main issue of this game.

What I can’t quantify is average time-of-drive for buckeye scores. I am also looking for t.o.p. for drives of 70 yds or longer. I don’t know if it is actually relevant, but it seems it should be. OSU avg t.o.p. per game is 30:40. for about 29 pts. Ducks are at 26 min for 37 pts. If the buckeyes get 4-6 minutes more than avg holding the ball, can they convert that into the two scores they need to win?

Buckeyes have one (1) Conference 1st Team player at Safety (suspect he will be a spy on the “should have been first team” PAC-10 Conf QB. And three 2nd teamers on D. Ducks were able to outscore several teams with better individual defensive players: UCLA; USC; OSU, AZ. Ducks O is a game of matchups that Coach Kelly and Masoli have learned to exploit as they have played through the season.

Back to my original question, does the buckeye O show the ability to put together long, time consuming 6-8 minute drives, that result in 7 pts? If not, Ducks D will limit them to 30 pts and still win running away.

I’ll see everyone down there!!!!!

first post, from columbus. hope we show well, as Tressel-ball is sometimes painful even for us back here in flyover country. love your state: been to Bandon twice, and third trip scheduled for next Sept. You guys know the wine thing too.

Just a couple of thoughts from an OSU fan’s perspective.

OSU on offense…At the beginning of the season, OSU attempted to run more shotgun/spread principles without actually running the best spread play (the read option). Pryor struggled severly in the shotgun and making the appropriate reads. After the Purdue game two things changed: (1) OSU’s offensive line became healthier; and, (2) OSU played from under center with running backs more often (for an Oregon fan that likes to watch a FB block, Zach Boren is pretty good). OSU’s strength on O the last five games is to establish the power running game and mixing in a playaction pass. OSU does have a game breaking receiving in Posey; however, he doesn’t get the number of balls per game to make him a national name. Sanzenbacher is a nice over the middle receiving who acts as a TE because OSU never throws to the TE. OSU’s RBs lack the vision of UO’s James but Saine has the speed (and really good hands) of Mr. James. Herron has the toughness to grind out yards. Against Michigan, OSU actually ran the spread option consistently for the first time all year. OSU’s offense, obviously, was much more difficult to stop. Pryor is one of the most deceptively fast players I have ever seen (I always thought VY looked fast, Pryor doesn’t look fast). Against, Penn St. Pryor connected on a long pass to Posey. Against Iowa and Michigan, he didn’t although it was open. I think OSU’s success in the Rose Bowl will be determined by Pryor’s ability to stretch the UO’s defense. If the threat to go deep is legit, OSU will be able to run the ball effectively. If there is no deep threat, UO will be able to load the box. OSU’s offensive line is above average. They have the ability to lean on smaller lines (see, Michigan…and don’t laugh because Michigan does have some good DL’s…see Graham) when pass protection is not the number 1 priority. If Oregon jumps out to a lead, OSU’s O-line will have their hands full. In general, OSU’s offense isn’t as a bad as they might seem. OSU could have scored more points throughout the season but Tressel calls a very conservative game. It will be interesting to see if Tressel comes out with new wrinkles. He has in the past (except against Florida) and they were successful (see against Texas with Pryor playing receiver and against LSU, it was 10-0 before OSU sh*t the bed, using Brandon Saine out of the backfield).

OSU’s Defense…This is a solid group of players, as I am sure everyone in Oregon has already been told. There are few weaknesses in the defense and those are in the secondary. The best part about OSU’s defense is the D-line. Cameron Heyward could be the best Defensive lineman in the country (actually second best behind Suh, what a stud) if he played consistently. He doesn’t. Thad Gibson and Nate Williams are fast DE’s who can put pressure on a QB quickly; however, Gibson tends to find himself out of position on good fakes. Doug Worthington is a good college DT. OSU does find depth along the line with Simon, Delinger, Larimore, Wilson and Rose. Other than Simon, those others provide size without the same quickness and speed. OSU’s D-line speed is great if Heyward bumps down to DT and Williams plays DE. I spent a lot of time on the D-line because if it is possible to stop Oregon, Gibson, Williams, Heyward, and Worthington is the type of defensive front to do it. The LBs are good but not great. Homan is solid but lacks elite speed and Rolle has the speed but finds himself not shedding blockers or overpursing a play too often. Spitler is a good third LB with a typical run stuffing attitude but lacks top end speed to chase sideline to sideline. OSU’s biggest problem on Defense is the secondary. Coleman is a stud at strong safety, but can be caught out of position in coverage. The CBs Chekwa and Torrence are great athletes who are big and fast. Chekwa has problems locating the ball in the air and downgrades him from great to good. Torrence is solid but lacks experience. The free safety position has been a nightmare (in my opinion) for OSU. Anderson Russell was a three year starter who just gets burnt in pass coverage against good teams (see gaming winning pass in Fiesta Bowl against Texas). Jermale Hines took his spot but has been dealing with injuries.

My biggest concern is that OSU’s nickel coverage includes Russell. He can be beat deep (Navy did it twice, NAVY!). The fun part about the Rose Bowl will be how Oregon’s offensive line plays. The read-option is almost unstoppable if the O-line blocks well. OSU has the ability to knock around Masoli and slow down James if breakdowns occur. I would be surprised if Oregon uses Blount in the Rose Bowl. OSU is built to stop RBs like Mr. Blount but is not quite as good at tackling the little man (watch Joe McKight make some HUGE plays against OSU). A healthy does of Mr. James might be too much to handle for OSU. Masoli must also keep the pressure off of the running game with some short and safe throws which he has been able to complete throughout the season. I don’t see that changing unless OSU blitzes more than usual (primarily a zone defense since 2001). Should be fun and exciting on that side of the ball.

As for special teams, OSU’s punter is struggling right now. Thoma prevents a lot of returns due to his short average and good angling of the kick, but he hasn’t been stricking the ball well. OSU is expected to get back Pettrey at kicker which would be a boost, he is good. I would except the level of atheletes to be similar at the other positions on the special teams units. OSU does have a bad reputation for not having speed but that mostly relates to the offensive and defensive lines. The special team units are good for OSU. Ray Small is a fantastic PR for OSU and has elite speed. He also returns kicks along with Lamaar Thomas who also is a fantastic athlete. I think OSU’s special teams are as good as anyone’s with Pettrey healthy.

Remember, Tressel IS a good big game coach. The last three bowl games (and USC in 2008) were against FAR better football teams than OSU. Period. Before these last three or four years, Tressel was undefeated in BCS games. I know, I know, the phantom flag against Miami shouldn’t count, etc…however; that Miami team was LOADED and they actually had to kick a FG to even get to OT.

I think Oregon has an advantage in this game due to the success of running the read option play with great athletes. I am not sure Oregon is FAR better than OSU and for that reason I think it will be a good game. The balance could tip in OSU’s favor depending on how the Oregon O-line plays against a great OSU D-line (and if Heyward shows up every play like he did against Penn St.). All in all, I look for a good game on Jan. 1.

Good luck Oregon.

Andy

misses part of the point on Oregon’s defense that can be devestating.

Power/man blocking running. The only team you played this year that runs a good scheme of that…..put up 51 pts. With that scheme, it’s not actually the yards and first downs that matter…it’s the beating put on the D-linemen and linebackers. Which either opens up the running game for big plays, or the passing game (by giving the qb time to find where the open guys are). The other teams you faced that could do that, but didn’t…got beatan by the otherwise solid defensive play.

Zone blocking for running plays is far more horizontal in movement, letting the defensive player take themselves away from the play.

To answer the question directly, OSU’s main offense will consist of a FB, RB, TE and two WRs. I don’t think there is any question about that after the #3 and #4 WR are not going to play in the game. The I formation under center is what got OSU the last 5 wins. Out of the I formation OSU will run a power play, an iso, inside zone and outside zone with a fullback leading the way. They have a few playaction pass plays and playaction roll out pass plays that can stretch the field. Posey is a legit deep threat, but Pryor has been unreliable in getting him the ball down the field.

Tressel’s non-play action pass plays can be run out of any formation with his favorite being the dig, drag, post. In my opinion, OSU needs to run the read option with Pryor so some spread formations can be utilized. I really hope OSU does run the spread and the read option. It will be interesting because it will pit speed on speed if Pryor runs a little bit. There is no question that Pryor will be the fastest QB Oregon has faced this year. Should be fun.

Answers:

(1) My confidence level of Pryor completing passes in a long situation is low. However, I wish that he would run more often when the pass play breaks down. He trys to stay behind the line of scrimmage to look for receivers downfield too long. My confidence level rises when he actually runs the ball in those situation rather than passes. If Oregon consistently puts OSU in long situations and can contain Pryor’s scrambles, Oregon wins hands down. Pryor’s best throws are across the middle because Tressel’s favorite play is the dig, drag, post with the WR running the dig getting many of the looks. Many of his throws outside of the numbers are not good. Pryor still throws the ball like a true sophomore (go figure) who didn’t play in a complex high school offense.

(2) Tressel always has the cojones to run the ball on third down regardless of the situation but it is always followed up with a punt on fourth down. Welcome to Tresselball; and no, I am not bragging about this. Rather, I am saying be ready to be frustrated (Oregon and OSU fans alike). There is no doubt that Oregon has great speed and stamina. This is a large obstacle for OSU to overcome.

Here are a couple of questions for you:

(1) Does Oregon have any depth along the defensive line to rotate players if OSU’s running game begins to click? I know that is a big if, but considering both teams like to run the football I think whichever team establishes a consistent surge in the trenches wins the game.

(2) What is the scoop on Oregon’s kicker and punter?