Media Wednesday - You Make The Call
Welcome to Media Wednesday. Nothing like digging up a cool vid to play in the middle of the week. In this video, we are asking you to make the call! Keenan Howry takes a punt back to the house in the 2001 Civil War but look closer at the block to his left at 56 seconds into the video. Is that a block in the back? You make the call! A sidenote, keeerrrttt1's videos on YouTube are awesome. Check him out.
Keenan Howry punt return changes the tide of the Civil War (via keeerrrttt1)
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Comments
That was totally a block in the side….totally legal.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Apr 29, 2009 11:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
he was turning towards Howry as the block was being delivered. No flag.
It's spelled "T-A-K-I-M-O-T-S-C-H-M-O-E."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by Takimoto on Apr 29, 2009 11:15 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Definitely a block in the back
Watch the replay starting around 1:00. #9 clearly shoves #27 in the back.
by grimc on Apr 29, 2009 11:37 AM PDT reply actions 3 recs
ha! Good find! Rec for resourcefulness. If you haven’t rec’d this comment, what’s wrong with you?!
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on Apr 29, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
half the distance to the goal
on the PAT? they cheated, we should get some yards.
Ducks Go!
RIP CITY!
by trumpetduck on Apr 29, 2009 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Helmet behind shoulder = block in the back. Should’ve been called, but this is the Pac-10 where refs are old, fat and stupid.
You cannot hide from our weapons of Masoli destruction.
by JConant on Apr 29, 2009 11:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't see that though...
Especially from the typical view (not endzone), the blocker comes down, and hits him right on the shoulder pad, from the side…
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Apr 29, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At 56 seconds, it looks legitimate. 1:00? Euh…. Yeah… Umm… Where is that Men in Black memory flashy thing at?
It’s spelled "S-H-U-M-W-O-W"
by JShufelt on Apr 29, 2009 12:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
All that matters is their positions when contact is made…so yeah, legit.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Apr 29, 2009 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you freeze the :55 frame (actually at about :55.5), the Oregon blocker’s helmet is clearly positioned behind the OSU players left shoulder and helmet. Based on the way the OSU guy’s head comes forward, it even looks like the Oregon blocker’s helmet contacted the OSU players helmet from behind.
The blocks directly behind the block in question…yes, those are legit blocks from the side, with the blockers’ helmets in front off or even with each defender’s left shoulder.
I'm really tired of it not being football season.
by JConant on Apr 29, 2009 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
First, I think you have to look at the play from a side view, and not just the end zone view, which doesn’t provide the right perspective. And I think both views show a hit directly on the shoulder pad. Also, how the player reacts isn’t valid because both players had upfield momentum.
Another thing to ascertain is how the rule should be called. I’ve heard that it doesn’t matter exact the position of the defenders helmet, but where the defender hits, and if he hits the side panel of the pads (which was done perfectly), it’s legit.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Apr 29, 2009 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure you can be “behind” a player, but if you make contact at the arm, it’s legit.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-M-W-O-W"
by JShufelt on Apr 29, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I expected you would...
You’re both right about one thing, according to the rules the blocker’s position of helmet or feet “do not necessarily indicate the point of initial contact.” But from either view, I still see the point of initial contact being the blocker’s right hand behind the OSU player’s left shoulder. Forward momentum by both players aside, the OSU guy’s reaction is consistent with having been initially contacted behind his left shoulder.
BTW…here’s your application
I think you’re both well qualified.
I'm really tired of it not being football season.
by JConant on Apr 29, 2009 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you’re both well qualified.
Wait, did you just insult them?
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on Apr 29, 2009 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he did, I expect to be inpeppered too.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-M-W-O-W"
by JShufelt on Apr 29, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
more making reference to him making the point that they would make excellent Pac-10 Refs. Excellent in the truly good way or excellent as in the replica way?
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on Apr 29, 2009 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From the 2008 NCAA rule book…
Block in the Back
ARTICLE 4. a. A block in the back is contact against an opponent occurring
when the force of the initial contact is from behind and above the waist
(Exception: Against the runner). When in question, the contact is below the
waist (Rule 9-3-3-c) (A.R. 9-1-2-XX and XXI, A.R. 9-3-3-VII, and A.R.
10-2-2-XXXIV).
b. The position of the blocker’s head or feet does not necessarily indicate
the point of initial contact.
c. A block in the back is illegal (A.R. 9-1-2-XXI, A.R. 9-3-3-VII, A.R. 9-3-
4-III and A.R. 10-2-2-XXXIV).
Exceptions:
1. When offensive players are on the line of scrimmage at the snap
within a rectangular area centered on the middle lineman of the
offensive formation and extending five yards laterally and three
yards longitudinally in each direction, they may legally block in the
back in the rectangular area.
(a) A player on the line of scrimmage within this blocking zone may
not leave the zone and return and legally block in the back.
(b) The blocking zone exists until the ball is touched outside the zone
or the ball is outside the zone after a fumble or muff from inside
the zone.
2. When a player turns his back to a potential blocker who has
committed himself in intent and direction or movement.
3. When a player attempts to reach a runner or legally attempts to
recover or catch a fumble, a muff, a backward pass, a kick or a
touched forward pass, he may push an opponent in the back above
the waist (Rule 9-1-2-d Exception 3) (A.R. 6-3-1-III).
4. When the opponent turns his back to the blocker under Rule 9-3-3-a-
1-(b).
5. When an eligible player behind the neutral zone pushes an opponent
in the back above the waist to get to a forward pass (Rule 9-1-2-d
Exception 4).
It’s spelled "S-H-U-M-W-O-W"
by JShufelt on Apr 29, 2009 1:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My point exactly, “…the force of the initial contact is from behind”. Which was in my opinion clearly the case here. Yes, the position of the player’s feet and helmet don’t constitute the penalty. But with feet and helmet clearly behind the OSU player in either view, what other direction could the “FORCE of the initial contact” have come from?
I'm really tired of it not being football season.
by JConant on Apr 29, 2009 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you want to definite it….
In my opinoin, the contact was made from the side. The problem with viewing it as you describe, is that it views the player as simply a front and back. But there’s a front, back, and 2 sides, essentially 4 zones of contact..
I have heard Bellotti talk about this very play, and said that contact was not made on the back panel of the padding, and thus, it’s not a penalty. Now, he may have just been saying that because he didn’t want to admit a penalty, but I’ve also heard him be honest about getting lucky calls. So whatever. But that makes total sense to me, and seems to be a very simple way of determining on the field if it’s a penalty or not. Otherwise, you start arguing about the exact positions of helmets and all sorts of other crap on legal blocks.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Apr 29, 2009 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
High quality angle found!

Green = Legal
Red = Not legal.
It was legal.
The dotted arrow is the projected direction he would fall down.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-M-W-O-W"
by JShufelt on Apr 29, 2009 2:50 PM PDT reply actions 3 recs
you have way too much time much time on your hands.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Apr 29, 2009 2:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It took me like… ten minutes.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-M-W-O-W"
by JShufelt on Apr 29, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t be so humble. Creating what appears to be a red chiffon cape for that one figure alone must’ve taken at least an hour.
by grimc on Apr 29, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Red chiffon cape? Sounds sexy!
It’s spelled "S-H-U-M-W-O-W"
by JShufelt on Apr 29, 2009 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So sexy it should be illegal. But you’ve covered that.
by grimc on Apr 29, 2009 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except the rule doesn’t say anything about the back of the arm being fair game. It says it’s a penalty if the force of the initial contact is from behind…which is the case even in your masterpiece (tackler on the x3 yard line and blocker on the x4 yard line).
To Jared’s point earlier, the rules don’t appear to define players’ sides, so I am assuming there is only a front and a back. Thus a blocker’s force of initial contact can only come from in front of or from behind a potential tackler. The arm area colored in green here looks to me like the back of the tackler’s arm and left shoulder. If that area was contacted first, and no penalty was called, then the referee is acknowledging that the force of initial contact came from in front of the potential tackler. That’s not how I see it.
I’m not going to change your mind. You’re not going to change mine. In the end it wasn’t called, so it wasn’t a penalty. You think they got it right. I think they got it wrong. It’s not like I was bummed that we scored a touchdown.
I would ask this one question: If you were a die-hard Beaver fan, can you honestly say you wouldn’t have been screaming for a flag?
Great job on the pic, BTW.
I'm really tired of it not being football season.
by JConant on Apr 29, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think beavers have at least a legitmate reason to think it’s a block in the back.
But when interpreting rules, it’s important to know WHY they made the rule. Getting hit in the back is a very dangerous thing. More so than it being an “unfair” practice that needs the playing field to be level (Like holding, or off sides). Getting hit in the back of the arm, isn’t any more dangerous than getting tackled from the front, or being “Warded”.
When i watch that video, and watching how the momentum of the attempted tackler after the block… I’m observing that, with no rotational factor in his fall, the front of his right arm is what is going to make contact with the ground first. The point of initial inertia is going to be the polar opposite side of the location of where the ground first makes contact. This leaves the back of his right shoulder/arm area. I believe the observation from the initial clip, prior to the replay, supports this data.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-M-W-O-W"
by JShufelt on Apr 29, 2009 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not going to change your mind. You’re not going to change mine. In the end it wasn’t called, so it wasn’t a penalty. You think they got it right. I think they got it wrong. It’s not like I was bummed that we scored a touchdown.
In addition…
Initially, when I first saw it, I thought, “Nah. Not a block in the back.”
Then I watched it again and thought, “Actually… that was.” ergo, my previous men in black reference.
But after watching it closer, and knowing I’ve seen blocks happen on the backside the arm, albeit at a better, unquestionable angle, I think I have enough data to have an “mostly” objective opinion on it.
It’s spelled "S-H-U-M-W-O-W"
by JShufelt on Apr 29, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s no question it was razor thin between penalty or no penalty. Wouldn’t be any fun if it wasn’t. For what it’s worth, the poll results strongly support the no call.
I'm really tired of it not being football season.
by JConant on Apr 29, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am curious though how many of the people voting in the poll voted for the “good non call” option because it meant we got a touchdown out of it
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on Apr 29, 2009 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would say, that like anything else, there is the rulebook, and how that rule is interpreted, much like the law is interpreted by the courts. Just because a rule doesn’t specifically say sides, doesn’t mean that isn’t inferred.
There are two ways to read the rule: 1) There is a front and back. 2) There is a back, that is directly behind the player.
From what I’ve heard from coach Bellotti and how I’ve seen the game officiated, number 2 is how the rule is interpreted, for ease of enforcement (it’s very easy to tell if someone gets blocked in the back panel of the pads), and because it still provides the safety required.
As far as a Beaver fan thinking they got jobbed, if this type of called happened to us, it’d obviously be very close, but I think that players should be allowed to block on the shoulder area, which this was.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Apr 29, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of all the threads to not be graced by VD and ArbyOSU…
It’s not even Lucky Number Tuesday at Bi-Mart. What could they possibly be doing?
I'm really tired of it not being football season.
by JConant on Apr 29, 2009 4:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Enjoying the fact that some Duck fans are arguing about whether or not a touchdown against Beavs was legitimate or not?
by grimc on Apr 29, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s exactly what I was doing. Besides, that game, what did we really have to talk about? We sucked that year.
The only time we’ve been ranked #1 in football…. F you Fresno State
I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by The VD Special on Apr 29, 2009 6:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What year?
Wait… what are you even talking about?
Addicted To Quack [dot] com; Dear Joevan, Develop motor skills. Love, ATQ.
by qrsouther on Apr 29, 2009 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OSU was ranked #1 by SI heading into the 2001 season.
They promply shat the bed, in true OSU fashion, at FSU to start the year, and ended up 5-6.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Apr 29, 2009 8:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought he was talking about that year.
But I just now realized that this clip was from 2001, so that’s how it related. I thought VD was just on a tangent there.
Addicted To Quack [dot] com; Dear Joevan, Develop motor skills. Love, ATQ.
by qrsouther on Apr 29, 2009 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll answer this video with another video...
I’ll answer my video with another video…For any Rodent hacks who think this was an illegal block, how ’bout these apples instead? We may have to sick Jerry Matson on you.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_OxsAMIbNM
by keeerrrttt1 on Apr 30, 2009 12:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
eep, hope that beaver player was ok. I’m all for big hits but damn.
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on Apr 30, 2009 12:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, why are we even having this conversation? Over one play 7 years ago?
by ochocokid on Apr 30, 2009 10:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
we're bored, give us a break
It's spelled "T-A-K-I-M-O-T-S-C-H-M-O-E."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
by Takimoto on May 1, 2009 12:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

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