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Fact or Fiction: USC will win the Pac-10 Championship in Football in 2009

The USC Trojans...Pac-10 Champions in football. Everyone outside of LA is hoping and praying that the dynasty will end. Every year, a few brave souls venture out of their caves to pick against the Trojans and proceed to get flogged repeatedly by their Troy oppressors. Will 2009 be any different? Probably not but that doesn't mean the ATQ Editors couldn't get together and take a stab at this week's Fact or Fiction question.

Fact or Fiction: USC will win the Pac-10 Championship in Football in 2009

Was anyone willing to step out of their mother's basement and pick against the Trojans winning the Pac-10 Championship? Check it out after the jump. Just remember, sometimes living in your mother's basement can help prevent pain, suffering, and from spending money on rent. It isn't always bad.

Star-divide

PaulSF > FACT

Listen, I hate the the Trojans just as much as the next guy, and maybe more. But let's face it: USC has been the team to beat every year for nearly a decade. Since being hired in 2000, Pete Carroll has not only brought the program back to glory after two relatively subpar decades, he's taken the Trojans to new heights. USC has finished with at least a share of the Pac-10 title every season for seven straight, and four of those seven were outright titles.

Everyone's been talking about how USC is due for a down year in 2009, and I think it's definitely a possibility. But we need to put "down year" into perspective. After sharing the Pac-10 title with ASU in 2007, followed by a win over Illinois in the Rose Bowl, a record seven Trojans were taken on the first day of the 2008 NFL Draft, and four of them were first-rounders. But despite having lost so many players to the NFL, USC came back and won the conference title outright in 2008. The Trojans have proved they have prolific talent (14 first-round picks since 2000), and are likely to be atop the conference standings again in 2009.

Bottom line: In the past seven seasons, a down year means not winning the Pac-10 title outright and/or not winning a national championship. If I'm a betting man, I'm putting my money on USC to at least share the title again in 2009.  But here's to hoping they don't.

JConant > FACT

USC will be Pac-10 champs in 2009. I do think there's a remote possibility they may share that title with a 1-loss Cal or 1-loss Oregon, because I don't think any team will get through the conference schedule unscathed.

Why will USC repeat, again? Because this program has a near endless supply of NFL-quality talent and because Pete Carrol - like him or not - is a genius motivator who uses competition among 2- and 3-deep talent to get the utmost performance and effort from those who are lucky enough to hold a prestigious starting spot. Skill position talent is unquestionable. The entire offensive line, including a couple key reserves, returns. Aaron Corp doesn't have to win games on his own, just manage the offense. There is no reason to believe the Trojans defense will be anything but really good if not great.

Reloading is the norm at USC. If the towel boy quits during the off season, I'd bet on F-you Pete to have an able replacement ready to fill the spot. That's just what the USC program is all about right now. Until someone knocks them off their pedestal, the Trojans have to be the favorite to win the Pac-10.

jtlight > FACT

Simply put, USC has more talent than any other team in the nation. While they have some question marks, and may be a little worse than last year, they are still a better team than any other in the conference.

They simply have too much talent and experience. Their two-deep on the offensive line is simply staggering to look at. They are deeper than any team in the country, in talent and experience, and it's not close. They have some of the most talented skill position players in the country, who perform year after year. At QB, they have Aaron Corp, who didn't make mistakes during the spring. And offensively, that's pretty much all they need.

Defensively, they have arguably the best player in the nation in Taylor Mays. He makes their entire defense better. They have experience on the D-line, and though the linebackers are inexperienced, they were better than expected in the spring, which should scare the hell out of all the Pac-10. Again, this is a unit that has performed for the past 7 years, without fail, no matter who is coming back.

While USC may have some question marks, there really is no reason to think they won't succeed. USC may lose a non-conference game and a random Pac-10 game due to that inexperience, especially at QB, but they should still win the Pac-10, either outright, or with a tiebreaker.

dvieira > FICTION

We know the stats of USC in the Pete Carroll era. Every year they reload with NFL talent and continue their dominance in the Pac-10. I'm here to tell you that you can throw out all the stats you want about USC being a dynasty, the team to beat, whatever you want. This year will be different and I'll tell you why. They've lost the competitive fire. They're too used to winning games and its cost the Trojans a game or two each year since the Curse of Vince Young befell USC during the 2005-06 National Championship game. In 2006, the Trojans fall to Oregon State in Corvallis. In 2007, USC lost to Oregon and then fell to Stanford in one of the biggest upsets in the history of the program. In 2008, Oregon State gets them again.

Fast forward to 2009. Sure, some would have you think that USC is just deep and having to replace everyone is no big deal. Pete Carroll didn't want to lose Mark Sanchez to the NFL for another year but people seem to gloss over that as just Pete being Pete. There is a reason why he wanted Sanchez back next season and it had everything to do with experience. The Trojans have key games on the road, playing at Ohio State in the second game of their season, playing at Cal in a night game and then coming to Autzen on Halloween in what could be an absolutely crazed fanbase under the lights. Even though Oregon State hasn't done well at Southern Cal, they may have finally found a formula for slaying the giant. USC desperately needs experience and they may not get it in time to notch a few losses. 

USC has strong potential to lose as many as 3 games in the Pac-10 this year. 2 of which, Cal and Oregon, are played on the road. Throw in one bad loss on the account of the Curse of Vince Young and you could see a Trojan team at 8-4. Oregon has all of their tough Pac-10 games at home this year. Cal is in the same boat with the exception of having to play Oregon at Autzen. Either of those two teams have a good shot...strike that....GREAT shot at unseating USC with Oregon State being a potential darkhorse team in that category.

Poll
USC will win the Pac-10 Championship in Football in 2009
Fact
139 votes
Fiction
268 votes

407 votes | Poll has closed

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FACT (kind of)

I think some form of Oregon, Cal and USC will split the title. I’m thinking USC-Oregon, with us holding the tiebreaker of course ;)

It's spelled "T-A-K-I-M-O-T-S-C-H-M-O-E."

I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.

by Takimoto on Jun 11, 2009 12:50 PM PDT reply actions  

USC can't win in Oregon

And they won’t this year. That being said, they’ll be good again of course…

Proud member of Duck nation!

by skywaker9 on Jun 11, 2009 1:47 PM PDT reply actions  

Fiction

As good as USC is, and as deep as USC is, this year they are faced with some really tough challenges. Eliminating any one of these 3 things practically guarantees them a PAC-10 title, but this year, with a rookie quarterback running a slightly softer offense, and a rebuilt defense (albeit Mays in UNREAL), I think this is the year USC gets unseated. That being said, if USC wins the PAC-10, they are BCS Championship game bound for sure. 2nd in the PAC-10 leaves them another major bowl:

1) Too many tough road games – USC has to play, within a 5 week span, @ND, @Cal, @UO, and @ASU. Their only reprieve during this 5 weeks is at home against a very good Beaver team, who, while probably losing, just may beat USC up enough to leave them vulnerable for their trip to Oregon, and if for some crazy twist of fate they slip by Oregon, they still have to travel to ASU. This has to be one of the most grueling road schedules in NCAA football, and I don’t think that even the mighty Trojans can survive.

My call is that, in a losing effort, OSU leaves them wounded enough for the Ducks to finish off.

2) Pete Carroll is a first half coach – The ND game from 2005 aside, USC’s goal is always to blow out their opponents in the first half, and take a seat in the 2nd half. You can point to losses to Stanford, Cal, OSU, UO, and Texas during the Pete Carroll era to recognize that in close games, where USC is down or has a marginal lead at the half, that USC is vulnerable, and has a tendancy to let games slip away.

A young or inexperienced QB is generally a 2nd half general, after taking some hits, making adjustments, and changing the game plan in order to stay in/come back/or maintain a lead. With Oregon and Cal’s ability to keep the game close in the first half with very strong ground games, this could be devastating to USC’s gameplan of “win in the first, sit in the second.”

3) Momentum – You can’t discount momentum. Oregon is riding a tidal wave right now after their finish of last season. Losing Johnson and Chang will hurt a little, but the way Oregon’s roster is set up, they are fine. Blount more than proved that he is the man, and Masoli is miles ahead of where he was at a year ago. I believe that Sanchez was much more important than Carroll or any of the Trojans will admit, and that while USC is known for reloading, there is still some hesitancy on the part of their QB situation – especially if Barkley takes over at some point during the season.

Oregon is getting almost the opposite of USC in terms of scheduling. The Ducks get 4 quality games in a row, that if they can win, will only push momentum into their Halloween game. Those 4, followed by 3 relatively easier games against UCLA, UW, and WSU will help make sure the team is fresh, healthy, and ready to play against USC when they come to town.

And as for Cal, they have 3 out of 4 very winnable games before facing USC, which could leave Cal healthier and more prepared than USC.

I believe that if you took out the road trip to OSU, gave USC one more home game against either Cal or Oregon, or had a slightly better starting QB than this would be USC’s year again. But the stars have aligned, and Tim Floyd knows it. Hasta La Vista, oh Mighty Trojans…maybe next year, right?!

by WSUCougMaddie on Jun 11, 2009 2:49 PM PDT reply actions  

No doubt we'll miss Patrick Chang

I'm really tired of it not being football season.

by JConant on Jun 11, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

Almost as much as Patrick Chung.

by grimc on Jun 11, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

Rim shot!

I'm really tired of it not being football season.

by JConant on Jun 11, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions  

One note...

You’re very incorrect about USC being a first half team. For every example you’ve given there are many more when it was close at halftime and USC straight up destroyed in the second half. They did that to Oregon in both 2002 and 2005, and to many other teams. They may have not been so dramatic in recent years, but this has nothing to do with coaching or with playing it safe.

--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog

by jtlight on Jun 11, 2009 3:28 PM PDT up reply actions  

Fair Enough...but

I don’t think that is truly correct. Defining close as within 1 score (7 points), here is my counterargument:

Since 2002 (discounting for a moment the Trojans 2005 almost perfect season), USC is 6-6 when they are behind at the half. If you include their 2005 season, then they are 10-7 when behind at the half. In all honesty, that’s not that great. It shows that if USC is behind at the half, they are an average football team. The median points behind for USC is about 5.5. Which means, if you can put up points on USC in the first half, say, 10 or more, a team will more than likely win.

Since 2002, USC (with the exception of the 2005 18 point deficit to ASU) has never come back from a deficit greater than 8 going into the half. – thus the gameplan: blow them out early, or we could lose. Every team who has put up 8 or more points on USC at the half has won, except ASU…EVERY team.

That being said, it doesn’t do any good to tie them. They are 5-0 when tied at the half since 2002.

I never said it’s about playing it safe. It’s about a coaching mentality. Blow up the score, get your 2nd string guys playing time, and win the game. It is BECAUSE of this game plan USC is so deep. While most NCAA teams struggle to get next years starters playing time this year, USC gets both their 1st and 2nd string guys playing time, so when next season comes around, the 2nd string guys aren’t green. You do that by winning games in the first half.

Sure, maybe Carroll is a 2nd half coach as well, but when it comes down to it, having a 50% win percentage when you aren’t winning doesn’t make you coach of the year. Yes, he is a genius, and an amazing coach, but let’s face it, he wants to work in the first, and play in the second.

Since 2002, only about 35% of USC’s games have been within 1 score (7 points) going into the half. Out of approx. 90 games since 2002, USC has only lost TWO (2) games when up at the half (2006 Cal, 2007 Stanford). If you are behind USC at the half, your are going to lose. A big reason for this is because USC generally blows teams out in the first half. They make the differential big enough so that teams have to struggle to get back in the game.

by WSUCougMaddie on Jun 11, 2009 4:49 PM PDT reply actions  

It shows that if USC is behind at the half, they are an average football team.

I think this is your whole point, and I think that just doesn’t make much sense. I mean, sure, putting more points on USC in the first half is a good thing, but isn’t that true with any team. If you look at USCs losses while down at the half over the past few years, since 2003, USC always at least held even in the second half, but more often than not brought the final deficit closer than the halftime deficit.

Also, this theory doesn’t even make sense. You claim that they’re not as good because of some coaching mentality that wants second stringers in the game. If it’s a close game for USC, they keep their starters in the game! They get more playing time when they blow people out, but it’s not like suddenly it’s the second half in a close game and Carroll’s putting in the backups.

If you’re up against any team at the half, you have a better chance at winning. This isn’t just USC, but any team. In fact, I would be interested to see other coaches records when down at the half. I wouldn’t be surprised if many teams were close to 50%. But even if they were, if a team is good enough to stick with USC for a half, they’re probably good enough to stick with them for the rest of the game.

So, I would say that USC is the same team throughout the game, and that none of the data would support that they are merely an average second half team.

--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog

by jtlight on Jun 11, 2009 5:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

They are as vulnerable as ever...

problem is that everyone else has their question marks. Oregon loses two much talent on the lines and Cal has has lost their linebacking corp and don’t have any answers to last year’s inconsistent passing game. I

by BisonDucks on Jun 11, 2009 5:22 PM PDT reply actions  

Right on.

USC gets beat by someone this year. The challenge for Oregon or Cal is not to get beat more often than once in conference play. Not an easy task with the round robin guarantee of playing everyone. OSU will beat some folks. UCLA and Stanford may as well. It’s not just about beating USC, it’s about being good enough the entire season to finish ahead of them in the standings. Two losses could win the conference in 2009.

I'm really tired of it not being football season.

by JConant on Jun 11, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

USC won't even finish second, might get third probably fourth.

I ain’t a mudrat fan or got nothin’ agin Subway but if Quiznos stays healthy USC won’t be able to catch him any better this year than last. The weenie covers can’t beat Dux at Autzen. They might well get Best-ed by Cal also. Dux beat Beavers in the Civil War for the conference and national title in the Civil War. Mark it down.

by DONALDUCK on Jun 11, 2009 6:01 PM PDT reply actions  

good work.

It's spelled "T-A-K-I-M-O-T-S-C-H-M-O-E."

I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.

by Takimoto on Jun 11, 2009 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s a beautiful shot of Reser you’ve got as an avatar.

by grimc on Jun 11, 2009 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions  

Reser avatar? Site of the Beaver de-flowering. 65 to ___ how much?

That’s at the Civil War last year…looked like orange ether floating out of the stadium. Ducks just knocked the spirit outta them. Thanx for the kind words on the photo.

by DONALDUCK on Jun 11, 2009 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

That is a sweet pic!

I can see the tiny little green dot of myself in that giant sea of orange… At least I think I can?
And that’s totally good enough for me!

There is NO charge for Awesomeness

by sgthawkins on Jun 12, 2009 9:06 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can see myself too, though I’m on the field so it’s a little easier to spot.

It's spelled "T-A-K-I-M-O-T-S-C-H-M-O-E."

I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.

by Takimoto on Jun 12, 2009 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

oh me too! some good seats we got there.

Sleeping under an avalanche with Cartman, wake me Sept 3.

by trumpetduck on Jun 14, 2009 2:41 AM PDT up reply actions  

Let’s see how they fare 3 games into the season. And that standard of measure would
also apply to any other pac 10 team that feels they have a legit shot at unseating them,
ie, oregon or cal. The trojans are still monsters of the midway. By Sept.’s end we should
see if that continues.

by ochocokid on Jun 12, 2009 1:56 AM PDT reply actions  

USC won't win the pac 10

They were lucky to win the pac 10 last year with. OSU almost maked the run for the roses. This year they have to replace 8 guys on defense and plus new QB.

Also they have @UW i know what your thinking but the huskies gave them a hard time back in 07.USC always seems to lose at least one or two games a year @ CAL @ UO @ ASU. With the 1st three not coming in Nov. is when you DONT want to play usc. Also usc plays ND and Ohio St. on the road.

by Duck4Lif3 on Jun 14, 2009 2:23 PM PDT reply actions  

Dvieria

I have to disagree with 100% about USC potentially going 8-4. Pete Carroll is a genius motivator, like JConant said. The only loss that USC has had in the last few years that was in a big game was at Oregon in 2007. Other than that, their losses have come to teams they should have throttled. If that Cal game and Oregon game are as big as they can potentially be (if Oregon and USC are both undefeated, that is going to be a match up of top 5 teams), Pete Carroll is going to have that team firing on all cylinders. You can’t discount experience, but there’s something to be said about a QB who doesn’t throw a single interception all spring long. I would take a new QB at USC over Sean Canfield or Lyle Moevao any day, and both are “experienced.” When at USC, the talent is always going to be tops in the conference, and that is no different at QB. Experience at USC is only the difference between a good quarterback and a great quarterback.

Also, I think that everyone saying that USC might have a down year this year is only serving as motivation for this young Trojan team. The way you beat young players is by telling them how good they are. The best way to get the most out of them is telling them they aren’t good enough. Pete Carroll knows what he is doing. I think the only game that USC loses (potentially) is the Ohio State game.

I support Takimoto in his effort to support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.

by The VD Special on Jun 14, 2009 9:15 PM PDT reply actions  

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