Which Pac-10 school is the conference's QBU?
by PaulSF on Jun 12, 2009 12:09 PM PDT
in Oregon Ducks Football
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Print| PaulSF's Top 10 All-Time Pac-10 QBs | ||
| Rank | Player | School |
| 1 | John Elway | Stanford |
| 2 | Troy Aikman | UCLA |
| 3 | Dan Fouts |
Oregon |
| 4 |
Carson Palmer |
USC |
| 5 | Drew Bledsoe | Wazzu |
| 6 | Jim Plunkett |
Stanford |
| 7 | Steve Bartikowski | Cal |
| 8 | Warren Moon | UW |
| 9 | Norm Van Brocklin |
Oregon |
| 10 | Matt Leinart | USC |
Two weeks ago, I tried to explain why Justin Roper and Chris Harper, who both opted to transfer in May, were simply collateral damage in the process of finding the next great Oregon quarterback, Jeremiah Masoli. Masoli, the Ducks' clear-cut No. 1 heading into the 2009 season, joins a very prestigious list of signal callers who have lined up under center in Eugene.
But how prestigious? While researching Oregon's QB history, I became curious about how the Ducks' list stacks up against the rest of the conference. The Pac-10 has produced some of the greatest QBs to ever play the game. But which Pac-10 school deserves the conference's title of Quarterback U?
It's obviously not an easy question to answer. It's almost impossible to settle on a method for measuring a quarterback's success. Do we base it on statistics? Individual success? Team success? Awards and accolades? Collegiate or professional career?
Every pundit has his method, and I won't claim mine is superior. But after digging through the expanse of statistics and data warehouses scattered throughout the depths of the Internets, I feel learned enough on the subject to rank each Pac-10 team's all-time quarterback list. Check out the rankings after the jump.
After spending some time researching each team's list, I developed what I believe is a fair method for ranking the Pac-10's quarterback alumni lists. In general, part of my evaluation was based on how impressive the list looked at first glance. For instance, if a team has 10 NFL QBs but I hadn't heard of nine of them, that, to me, didn't make it any more impressive than a team that's produced four NFL quarterbacks with three having had long, successful careers. I also tried to keep it balanced between professional and collegiate success. Some teams have had All-American quarterbacks flop in the NFL, while other teams have had back-up college QBs go on to have solid NFL careers. I tried to balance it out.
Keep in mind, this is very subjective and based solely on my own opinions and research. But, without further ado, here are my rankings:
| Rank | School | The Best | The Rest | The Breakdown |
10 |
 |
Willie Tuitama | Fred Enke, Eddie Wilson | Arizona isn't exactly known for its quarterbacks, so there aren't a lot of guys to choose from. Tuitama, at least statistically, is the best. He set Arizona career records in passing yards, passing touchdowns, attempts and completions and led the Wildcats to their first bowl game (a 31-21 win over BYU in last year's Las Vegas Bowl) since Dick Tomey's 12-1 team in 1998. |
9 |
 |
Terry Baker | Derek Anderson, Erik Wilhelm, Howard Maple, Joe Francis, Matt Moore | With an NCAA record 28-straight losing seasons from 1971 through 1998, it shouldn't come as much of a surprise that the Beavers don't have a long list of great quarterbacks. But they do have a great one at the top: Terry Baker. After passing for 1,738 yards and rushing for another 538 (Remember, this is the 1960s!), Baker won the 1962 Heisman Trophy, becoming the first individual from the West Coast and the only player from either D-I Oregon school to win the award. But here's the most impressive part: He also led the OSU basketball team to the Final Four in 1963, becoming the only individual ever to win the Heisman and appear in the Final Four. (And no, Charlie Ward didn't accomplish this feat...I checked.) He was named Sports Illustrated's coveted Sportsman of the Year in 1963. Not bad...for a Beaver. |
8 |
 |
Jake Plummer | Danny White, Mark Malone, Mike Pagel, Paul Justin, Rudy Carpenter, Andrew Walter | Like its in-state rival, ASU hasn't historically been known for producing great quarterbacks. But the last decade has seen a few additions to the list, namely Andrew Walter and Rudy Carpenter. The obvious choice, however, is Jake Plummer. Jake "The Snake " led the Sun Devils to their last 11-win season in 1996, earning first-team All-American honors, as well as being named the Pac-10's Offensive Player of the Year, the only Sun Devil to ever receive the award. Plummer is also the only former ASU starting QB to be selected to the Pro Bowl more than once. |
7 |
 |
Drew Bledsoe | Mark Rypien, Ryan Leaf, Timm Rosenbach, Jason Gesser, Jack Thompson, Jack Elway | The Cougars list is relatively brief (almost as brief as Ryan Leaf's NFL career...I'm here all week), but it's very solid. Mark Rypien had arguably the best NFL career of the bunch, but Bledsoe gets the nod as Wazzu's best. Despite leaving for the NFL after his junior season, Bledsoe still managed to break a number of the school's passing records, including single-game passing yards (476), single-season pass completions (241), and single-season passing yards (3,246). He was named the Pac-10 Player of the Year as a junior before being selected No. 1 overall in the 1993 NFL Draft by the New England Patriots. Although he's had quite a few critics (all Boston-area sports fans are critics), the 4-time Pro Bowler led the Patriots to Super Bowl XXXI, losing to the Green Bay Packers 35-21, and was integral in the Patriots' Super Bowl title run in 2001, which is mostly remembered for Tom Brady's rise to prominence filling in for the injured Bledsoe. So, I guess, in some sense, we should credit Bledsoe for Brady, adding another accomplishment to his list. |
6 |
 |
Steve Bartkowski | Aaron Rodgers, Craig Morton, Mike Pawlawski, Joe Roth, Joe Kapp, Kyle Boller, Troy Taylor, Rich Campbell, Bob Celeri, Gale Gilbert, Pat Barnes | Right now, Cal is knocking on the door of the top-five. And I think the longer Jeff Tedford stays at Cal, the higher the Bears can climb this latter. Sure, some will argue Tedford's mentees are just products of a system. And there's some truth to that, as few have seen much success at the next level. But no coach has had more products start for an NFL team in the last decade than Tedford. And when it's all said and done, we might be calling Aaron Rodgers the best Golden Bear signal caller. But as of now, it's Steve Bartkowski. Bartkowski became an All-American in 1974 after leading the Golden Bears to a 7-3-1 season. After being selected No. 1 overall in the 1975 NFL Draft, Bartkowski won the Rookie of the Year award, was selected to the Pro Bowl twice, led the NFL in TD passes in 1980, and still holds the Atlanta Falcons' career passing yards record with 23,470. |
5 |
 |
Troy Aikman | Bob Waterfield, Gary Beban, Billy Kilmer, Steve Bono, Drew Olson, Cade McNoun, Tommy Maddox, Tom Ramsey, Rick Neuheisel, Jay Schroeder | Glancing at the list of great UCLA quarterbacks is a lot like walking down Sunset Strip and seeing a bunch of B-level celebrities you recognize but can't seem to place. Steve Bono, Cade McNoun, Tommy Maddox, Tom Ramsey: All familiar names, but might take a Wikipedia search to shed some light. Of course, this notion excludes Troy Aikman, arguably the best the Pac-10's had to offer. After transferring from Oklahoma in 1986, the consensus All-American and 1988 Davey O'Brien Award winner led the Bruins to a 20-4 record in two seasons before being selected No. 1 overall by the Dallas Cowboys in the 1989 NFL Draft. Aikman led the Cowboys to three Super Bowl titles and was selected to the Pro Bowl six times. He is one of the few quarterbacks in history to do as much at the collegiate level as he did in the pros, and, as a result, has been inducted to both the College and Pro Football Halls of Fame. |
4 |
 |
Warren Moon | Mark Brunell, Chris Chandler, Marques Tuiasosopo, Sonny Sixkiller, Brock Huard, Damon Huard, Cody Pickett, Hugh Millen, Billy Joe Hobert, Cary Conklin, Bob Schloredt, Don Heinrich, Isaiah Stanback, Tom Flick | The Huskies have a long and impressive list of great quarterbacks, but none holds a more prominent place in football history than Warren Moon. The 9-time Pro Bowl selection was not only an outstanding college and NFL QB, but broke barriers as the first African-American to be elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame. He's also the only player to be elected to both the Pro and Canadian Football Halls of Fame. Although his college stats don't jump off the page, he got results, earning the 1978 Rose Bowl MVP while leading the Huskies over Michigan, 27-20. |
3 |
 |
Dan Fouts | Norm Van Brocklin, Chris Miller, Bill Musgrave, Bob Berry, George Shaw, Dennis Dixon, Joey Harrington, Akili Smith, Danny O'Neil, Tony Graziani, Kellen Clemens, A.J. Feeley | Compared to every other team on this list, the Ducks are probably the most consistent at producing top-notch quarterback talent. Ever since Fouts donned the bright yellow helmet in the early 70s, the Ducks have strung together a series of great quarterbacks. It's hard to argue with Joey Harrington's collegiate career. He finished his Oregon career with a 25-3 record, including an 11-1 finish in 2001 when the Ducks finished the season ranked No. 2 nationally, and fourth in the Heisman voting in 2001. And anyone over the age of 75 would make a strong case for Norm Van Brocklin. But Fouts has something Joey hasn't even sniffed: An NFL career. And not just any career, but a Hall of Fame career. Sure, Fouts finished his college career a mediocre 15-17-1 for the Ducks, including a 4-7 finish his final year, but considering all of his post-college accomplishments and the fact that a guy named Steve Prefontaine was taking the running world by storm just down the foot path to Autzen the same years, Fouts is Oregon's best. |
2 |
 |
Carson Palmer | Matt Leinart, Mark Sanchez, Matt Cassell, John David Booty, Vince Evans, Rodney Peete, Pat Haden, Paul McDonald, Todd Marinovich, Brad Otton, Sean Salisbury, Rob Johnson, Cotton Warburton, Morley Drury | Ten years ago, USC wouldn't have even been in the QBU conversation. But when your quarterbacks take home two Heisman Trophies and your team wins two national titles, as well as seven straight shared or outright conference titles, all while putting up ungodly offensive numbers, you're probably a bit more relevant. USC has certainly had some solid QBs, but historically, it was known more as Running Back U. Enter Pete Carroll, who, with the help of Norm Chow, has turned USC into a QB factory. And although Matt Leinart broke nearly all of his records, it is Carson Palmer that should be considered the flag-bearer. He set the bar very high for USC QBs in 2002, breaking numerous conference passing records and becoming the first Trojan to win the Heisman Trophy. He was the No. 1 overall pick in the 2003 NFL Draft and has had a very respectable NFL career so far, including two Pro Bowl selections. Plus, he's not as much of a douchebag as Leinart, which, let's be honest, has to count for something. |
1 |
 |
John Elway | Jim Plunkett, Frankie Albert, Trent Edwards, John Brodie, Bobby Garrett, Mike Boryla, Steve Stenstrom, Gary Kerkorian, Steve Dils, Don Bunce, Guy Benjamin, Todd Husak, John Paye, Dick Norman, Turk Schonert, Chad Hutchinson, Mark Butterfield | Aside from John Elway and Jim Plunkett, most of the guys on Stanford's list won't ring many bells. But they should. Like Elway and Plunkett, John Brodie and Frankie Albert are College Football Hall of Famers, giving the Cardinal more than any other Pac-10 team. In fact, Albert is credited with inventing the bootleg play, whom we Oregon fans should thank, because without it, the Spread wouldn't exist. You'll find a contingent of Cardinal fans who would make the case for Jim Plunkett as the program's best. And he certainly had an impressive college career, shattering Pac-10 passing records en route to earning the 1970 Heisman Trophy and the No. 1 overall pick in the 1971 NFL Draft. He even had a fantastic 15-year NFL career, leading the Raiders to two Super Bowl titles and collecting numerous awards and accolades. But aside from finishing second to future Celebrity Apprentice star Herschel Walker for the 1982 Heisman, John Elway did everything Jim Plunkett did and then some. After shattering nearly every Pac-10 passing record at Stanford, Elway was chosen No. 1 overall in the 1983 NFL Draft. The nine-time Pro Bowl selection and Pro Football Hall of Famer led the Broncos to four Super Bowls, including one win in Super Bowl XXXIII, and is widely considered the greatest QB of all time. |
There are, of course, other factors than just looking at the big names on each team's list. Here are a few interesting tidbits I found:
- Stanford has the most College Football Hall of Fame quarterbacks (Elway, Plunkett, Brodie and Albert)
- Oregon and UCLA have the most Pro Football Hall of Fame quarterbacks (UCLA: Aikman and Waterfield; Oregon: Fouts and Van Brocklin)
- Stanford has had the most quarterbacks taken in the NFL Draft (19).
- Oregon's list leads all Pac-10 schools' in total Pro-Bowl appearances (17).
- Nine Pac-10 QBs have been selected No. 1 overall in the NFL Draft: Bobby Garrett (Stanford, 1954), George Shaw (Oregon, 1955), Baker (OSU, 1963), Plunkett (Stanford, 1971), Bartkowski (Cal, 1975), Elway (Stanford, 1983), Aikman (UCLA, 1989), Bledsoe (Wazzu, 1993) and Palmer (USC, 2003).
Okay, so now that you have all the facts and have seen my breakdown, it's your turn to chime in. Which Pac-10 school really is the conference's Quarterback U?
The above helmet images are courtesy of The Helmet Project. For an extensive team-by-team history of college football helmets, visit NationalChamps.net/Helmet_Project.
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Comments
I think your rankings are about right. USC definitely is jumping up there with the last few years of QB production. But Stanford has a pretty solid history.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
As a Beaver, I accept our position on this list, though I think we should be tied with ASU, you know, not just to make us feel better but also be ASU’s QB tradition isn’t so hot either.
As for the top half of the list, and I’ll catch hell for this, you’ve got to slide UW past UO. I hate them too, but seriously. Just a quick sight test of both lists makes me think Dawgs over Durks, but that’s me. And I’m awesome.
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
- from Quick's Behind the Blazers Locker Room Door, 4/16/09
Obviously UW should be higher...
But there’s just no way in hell I’m putting them ahead of the Ducks. Just not happening. ;-)
Hi, I'm Paul Thompson, and I'm a quack-aholic.
When Isaiah Stanback is part of “The Rest,” well….fuck that.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
If you take him out the list just gets better, doesn’t it? Kind’ve pushes them over the top in my eyes.
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
- from Quick's Behind the Blazers Locker Room Door, 4/16/09
Take solace in these facts...
Did you know…Terry Baker, arguably the greatest athlete ever from the state of Oregon, was a three-sport star at Jefferson High School in Portland. Aside from football and basketball (mentioned above), he also helped Jefferson win a baseball state title his senior year, pitching in the championship game. In football, he was 24-0 as a starter his junior and senior year, but part of that was due to his teammate, Mel Renfro, the former Duck and Dallas Cowboy who is also a Pro and College Football Hall of Famer. Can you imagine? A future Heisman Trophy winner and a future Hall of Famer on the same high school team in little old Portland, Oregon in 1959? Absolutely dominant player, and the more I read, the more fascinated I became. For the first time ever, I was kind of jealous Oregon State gets to stake claim to such a man.
Hi, I'm Paul Thompson, and I'm a quack-aholic.
My grandpa played basketball with him at Jeff frosh and soph years before transferring.
As a NE Portland kid and a Beaver I’m very proud of Baker. Those football teams must’ve been insane. What a backfield.
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
- from Quick's Behind the Blazers Locker Room Door, 4/16/09
re: Terry Baker
There was interview with Terry Baker on 95.5 a while back and Clownzano was trying to get Terry to extol all of the wonderful virtues of Oregon Agricultural College and Terry’s answer was basically that he wanted to be a Duck along with his friends because they were a better team but he chose OAC because they had an engineering program. Just think, if there were an engineering degree at UO, OS would basically have no football history. Humbling thought if you ask me.
I think he’s gotten over all that by now. I’ve personally spotted the guy at games with his letterman jacket on… and I don’t think he actually said anything negative about “OAC” if memory serves me correctly… nice of you to join up today to stir the pot though.
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
- from Quick's Behind the Blazers Locker Room Door, 4/16/09
clarification
I have no doubt that he probably does not regret his decision. He is and should be extremely proud of his alma mater. The man won the Heisman trophy after all.
I was mostly amused by his answers in the interview because he didn’t allow Clownzano what he clearly was after.
I hate to say it, but Washington should probably be No 2.
Oregon and USC tied @ 3rd.
And OSU either tied with ASU or a bump ahead.
But really… i don’t have a problem with the rankings, and I understand not wanting to list UDub over Oregon in anything.
"It’s spelled S-H-U-F-E-L-T-M-E-U-P"
We may disagree on drum machines and samplers...
…but your list adjustments are spot on, sir. Treat yourself to a frosty beverage.
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
- from Quick's Behind the Blazers Locker Room Door, 4/16/09
Let me shed some light on this...
First, I think you’re under valuing Jake Plummer. The Sun Devils were 11-0 before losing by three to Ohio State in the 1998 Rose Bowl, and he was probably the biggest part of that. He’s also had an above-average career as an NFL starter. Baker, on the other hand, was a major NFL flop and was never actually a full-time NFL starter in four short seasons. OSU, actually, has had only one season-long starter in the NFL (Derek Anderson), whereas ASU has had seven. I’m not saying pro careers are the only factor, but both teams have very similar lists, and ASU’s is better overall.
As for USC, ten years ago, I don’t even think they’re in the top five. But with Leinart, Booty, Palmer and Sanchez, they are pretty tough to beat. You have to assume Leinart and Palmer are headed to the College Football Hall at this point, which, in my opinion, significantly raises their value.
The Huskies are probably the most underrated on the list, but again, this is an Oregon Ducks fan blog, not the New York Times. Husky fans, you’ll have to deal with it. You should also know that Huskies quarterbacks aren’t terribly impressive statistically. Lots of wins, but not a lot of life-altering performances or strategy changing quarterbacks. Dennis Dixon, Joey Harrington, Dan Fouts, Norm Van Brocklin, Bill Musgrave, Akili Smith…those guys redefined the quarterback position in the Pac-10 at the time, and in my rankings, that counted for something. Stanford actually got the nod over USC because of Frankie Albert. Look him up if you have time…
Hi, I'm Paul Thompson, and I'm a quack-aholic.
Both Anderson and Wilhelm actually have some all-time numbers that still stand (yes, even Wilhelm. No, seriously.) You can argue that neither one had perfect seasons or high profile bow games (and you’d be right) but still, as far as pure ability (and not just to throw a lot of picks) both were good QBs.
I’d say we’re at least tied with ASU. I just don’t think Plummer puts them over the top. Side note: Plummer is taking a stab at professional handball in his retirement. Pretty sweet, huh?
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
- from Quick's Behind the Blazers Locker Room Door, 4/16/09
Thank you for the mention
i am the greatest QB in the history of mankind.
by Bill Musgrave on Jun 12, 2009 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions
Let’s look at the evidence.
Here you are hitting Sean Burwell against BYU.
Deep to Michael McLellan against BYU.
Hitting Joe Reitzug deep in the Independence Bowl.
Then to Tony Hargain who puts the moves on Tulsa and scores.
[Thanks keeerrrttt1 for all the old school Duck football on YouTube]
I'm really tired of it not being football season.
sweet jesus how i love myself
and i really miss myself too
back in the days when we weren’t really supposed to win games
i did
i did it
i love me
ironically, i am also a very humble, level headed guy and would be really disappointed in me if i heard myself saying these things
but i don’t care, i am the best
by Bill Musgrave on Jun 13, 2009 12:49 PM PDT up reply actions
ps: thanks for the clips
great memories, i was at that byu game
er, but i guess you already knew that
by Bill Musgrave on Jun 13, 2009 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
i do too! a lot!
hahahahahah, ok, last time for that joke.
maybe
by Bill Musgrave on Jun 13, 2009 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions
my dad had a joke he would tell once every five to seven or so years
it was of the “burn” variety, where you baited somebody into it and then dropped the punchline on them, generating great primal joy for the roman mob, and great shame and sorrow for the vanquished
it was enough of a family tradition that the rest of us would try to drop the same hammer, over-anxiously spitting it out in approximately bi-annual efforts. it required more patience, and sculptors just have more focus, more dedication to the craft, more skill. pops would add years to his own schedule if someone else screwed it up, like a bad blackjack player, pulling cards out of turn.
that dude new timing
have enjoyed the banter here for some time,
will do my best to be a worthwhile participant
by Bill Musgrave on Jun 14, 2009 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking the same thing. Mark Brunell and Chris Chandler just nip at the heals of Warren Moon as the best ever at UW. I think it gets a little softer at the Huard brothers, but the Huskies have a very strong overall list and a bunch of Rose Bowls and NFL wins to prove it.
I think: #2 – UW, #3 – UO, #4 – USC
I would also put Warren Moon at #4 on the individual list. I’d also boot Leinart from the top 10 and insert Wazzu’s Mark Rypien in his place.
I'm really tired of it not being football season.
How many played without facemasks
should be figured into the ranking. As well as how many NFL HoFers. Additionally, NFL HoFers who didn’t play with facemasks should receive bonus points. Norm Van Brocklin FTW.
There is only one facemask-less NFL HOF...
And that’s Van Brocklin. The only other Pac-10 QBs in the Pro Football Hall of Fame are Dan Fouts, John Elway, Troy Aikman, Bob Waterfield and Warren Moon. Of these six, only Waterfield didn’t make my top-10 list.
Hi, I'm Paul Thompson, and I'm a quack-aholic.
Almost agree with the list
I’d rank Cal’s depth ahead of Aikman U, only partially because I hate the Cowboys.
It's spelled "T-A-K-I-M-O-T-S-C-H-M-O-E."
I support inroywetrust in his support of The VD Special in his support of me supporting Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
surprise surprise
Oregon in the lead… I’m a fan too but the outcome of this poll was decided before the question was even asked.
I'd pull the Fuskies up, as well as dropping UCLA down a bit.
But, good research and well-written no less.
Addicted To Quack [dot] com; Dear Joevan, Develop motor skills. Love, ATQ.
A good job, but one dispute...
Nicely done! It’s a good list, and obviously debatable (which is half the fun of making the list in the first place!)
You failed to add Alex Brink to the list for WSU. If you can add Dennis Dixon, you can add Alex Brink. Brink is currently one of the all time leaders in passing yards and td’s in the PAC-10, and currently owns the WSU records for net passing, td’s, and completions.
Also, Dennis Dixon and Alex Brink have both started the same number of games in the NFL – 0. I’m not saying that Brink is a better QB than Dixon, but if you are looking at both collegiate and NFL performance, they are pretty similar.
Just curious...
But what were their W-L records as starters? I’d be curious to know that when comparing the two.
"The brownies,'' Fernandez said after the game. "The brownies are good for me to make three-points.''
- from Quick's Behind the Blazers Locker Room Door, 4/16/09
Another side note;
And this is a serious question. I thought Alex Brink was a huge disappointment to Coug fans and most would like to forget his career? That’s always the impression I’d gotten from other Coug fans. In so many words, an Oregon fan wouldn’t get up in arms about the absence of Jason Fife in a QB list. Is this not so for Cougs and Brink?
I used to go see him play when he was at Sheldon and he certainly looked like a D-1 QB then.
Addicted To Quack [dot] com; Dear Joevan, Develop motor skills. Love, ATQ.
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