BSU, the WAC and a BCS invite
by BisonDucks on Jul 17, 2009 7:28 PM PDT
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PrintIn light of recent arguments made by BSU fans, I delved into some statistics. I was curious about how bad the WAC really is. In all fairness, BSU has my attention and respect. I want to take nothing away from them. However, I am little annoyed by their insistence at being slighted by the BCS. If one or two posters were making the comments than I would dismiss it as the "one bad apple" syndrome. However, there is a certain recurring theme the fanbase in its entirety echoes: "we win all our games than we should be in a BCS game." I am going to say this once and for all: "you didn't belong in the BCS!" The year they were deserving they made it. The BCS has been more than fair.
Let's look at last year's body of work. Their notable wins were against Oregon and Nevada. Oregon at the time had their 4th and 5th string quarterbacks in the game. In no other game did Oregon play Chris Harper at quarterback except for situationally (i.e., running plays). Thomas threw a pass in a trick play but in no other games did he complete a pass. Undeniably Boise State played a shadow of the team that the rest of our schedule faced. The rest of the nation took notice too. Nevada, their other quasi-quality opponent, took them to the wire. After these two teams: their schedule was rife with cream puffs. Oh, yeah, I am forgetting their two other MAC OOC games that may just be worse.
Here is the verdict:
conference win/loss record versus the 6 BCS conferences during regular season: 4-12
average points scored: 16
average points scored against: 37
average margin of victory: 9
average margin of loss: 31
biggest margin of victory: 17 (Fresno State against Rutgers that started 1-5)
biggest margin of loss: 70 (Arizona vs. Idaho)
higest point total: 37 (BSU vs. Oregon)
lowest point total: 0 (Arizona vs. Idaho, Kansas vs. LaTech)
Wins verses BCS teams with winning record: 2 (Rutgers 7-5 and Oregon 10-3)
Away wins versus BCS teams: 1
Bowl record: 1-3
Essentially the WAC notched victories against Miss State, UCLA & Rutgers outside of the BSU vs. Oregon marquee WAC victory. Fresno State accounts for 2 of those victories (they are still the giant slayers). FSU did beat a Rutgers team that was eventually bowl bound after starting the season 1-5.
Over at OBNUG they are blathering on and on about how they've been slighted (go see their first fanpost). Yet, can a reasonable person really look me in the eye and tell me they're more deserving than the 6 conference champions and invites ALABAMA, TEXAS and UTAH (I am forgetting someone)? They ended up losing to TCU in their bowl game and were outgained by the second place MWC team 472-250 yards. They were not at all impressive in that game, save some turnovers. Against teams with a pulse they gave up 464 to Oregon and 472 to TCU. This vaunted defense that gave up 12 points a game isn't a farse because, hey, they gave up only 385 to Nevada, which is well below their season average (so would say a BSU fan). However, Missouri, not known for their defense, one upped them allowing only 362 yards to Nevada.
All in all, I would put BSU's defense in the same category as last year's Oregon State or Arizona defense. They are high quality but not dominate. Their offense was stagnate at times due to bad rush blocking by their line. In conclusion, they were a derserving top 25 team but not BCS material, which is not slight in the least.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or the Addicted To Quack Moderators. FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable Oregon fans.
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Put BSU, Fresno, and Hawaii in the Mountain West
make that conference 12 teams, and make it a BCS conference. WAC can’t be BCS with teams like Idaho and Utah State.
MWC North:
Boise State
Utah
BYU
Wyoming
Colorado State
Air Force
MWC South:
TCU
Hawaii
Fresno State
San Diego State
UNLV
New Mexico
That’s a pretty damned good conference. Most of those are already really good programs, and the few that aren’t (SDSU, Wyoming, CSU, NM) have the resources to be.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
I like that conference
If the big boys in that league scheduled like the pac 10 they would have some nice resumes. It would also give this side of the rockies and second legitimate conference, which would help the Pac 10.
Sleeping under an avalanche with Cartman, wake me Sept 3.
by trumpetduck on Jul 18, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions
I say drop Hawaii and add Nevada
Nevada is better consistantly, Hawaii subrtact the Colt Brennen era has been less the average.
by RipCityRoyCity on Jul 23, 2009 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions
"The BCS has been more than fair."
Right. Then why is everyone in a rage about it?
Its a terrible system, and we will bitch when we know we can beat teams like you or Chokelahoma who receive more money year in and year out.
As for our losses, everyone loses sometimes. We’ve only been doin D-1 for ten years, I’d say we’ve done pretty good. What did Oregon do in its first ten years as a D-1 school? Out of curiosity
I’m glad you respect BSU, as I do the ducks, but I cannot believe all the fans on here support such a corrupt business.
Even if we played a tough non-con schedule, and had a good conference, we’d still get the shaft.
Your better than that Oregon. The only reason the WAC doesn’t get much better is because this system hinders it in so many ways.
"Gandhi didn't take a knee, Martin Luther King didn't take a knee, Thomas Edison didn't take a knee, and I sure as hell am not going to take a knee." - Dan Hawkins
Its a terrible system, and we will bitch when we know we can beat teams like you or Chokelahoma who receive more money year in and year out.
Is it so terrible for Boise State? You have played crappy teams, one team from a BCS conference a year (sometimes winning, sometimes losing) and STILL get to go to a BCS game. Quite frankly, I think the system is broken in that way in that really good teams who play tough schedules are penalized because those teams at 9-3 don’t get the payday that the Boise State’s of the world are almost assured of, despite playing better teams. If anything, you should be THANKING the BCS because despite you playing St. Mary’s of the Blind and Super Duper Deaf University, you get practically a free ride to a BCS game every year and the pay day that goes with it. Why don’t you ask Texas how they feel about getting snubbed?
As for our losses, everyone loses sometimes. We’ve only been doin D-1 for ten years, I’d say we’ve done pretty good. What did Oregon do in its first ten years as a D-1 school? Out of curiosity
Um ok…that makes sense…
I’m glad you respect BSU, as I do the ducks, but I cannot believe all the fans on here support such a corrupt business.
I think you’d find that people generally don’t support the BCS here and want to see it changed. News flash, the chances of it changing are VERY SLIM. You have a better shot of seeing Boise State join a BCS conference than seeing the BCS go away.
Even if we played a tough non-con schedule, and had a good conference, we’d still get the shaft.
Yes, because you play in a crappy conference that isn’t eligible for the National Championship game. However, you have a very good shot of going to a BCS game every year and getting the payday that goes with it. I think it sucks that not all D1 teams have the ability to go to the National Title game. But hey, your conference and school agreed to those rules. You make a stink but in the end, you sign the conference and collect the money from your BCS game.
Your better than that Oregon. The only reason the WAC doesn’t get much better is because this system hinders it in so many ways.
I quote jtlight in his response to this…
“That was the case for Oregon 30 years ago. College football is not built for parity. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. If you want something else, go watch the NFL.
Another note for BSU, if they played better out of conference games, they would get more recognition. As it is now, they don’t. When you’re in a position where you have a poor strength of schedule, you need to do what you can to get as many tough games as possible. They have not done that, but if the comments by BoiseState are any indication, still want all the benefits of playing a tough schedule."
So I challenge you. Play the tough teams in OOC and try to make the changes by the play on the field. Beating one BCS team every now and then doesn’t do anything for you. Beat good teams and make people think you are the killer of giants. Until you beat more than one good team every year, you just won’t get the respect you want or the changes in the system you so desire.
Playing crappy teams all year? Come on Boise State, you’re better than that….aren’t you?
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
by dvieira on Jul 18, 2009 1:36 AM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
Like I said
Even if our conference was good we’d still get the shaft. Playing crappy conference teams all year? Its what we’re stuck with. Not our fault.
As for non-con, Bleymaier is changing his philosophy and scheduling some BCS one and dones.
You’re right tho, we are better than that. And I could sit here and pick apart your sentences and think of quirky little remarks all day but I won’t.
And are you still serious about the BCS being more than fair? Non-big conference affiliated teams made twice as much revenues before the system started in 1998. From 1984-1990 was the most revenue non big conference teams earned, being about 30% of the total ncaaf revenue. Today its a mere %14 of the total.
Hmm, yes, this definitely looks like the BCS has been fair. Go look up the evolution of the BCS folks, and see what its done to college ball.
This is not a good thing you’re supporting here. If university presidents, athletic directors, professors, fan, members of congress and the President are all against it, somethings obviously not right.
So we’ll beef up our OOC in the mean time, and keep winning our conference, but its still not gonna matter in the end.
"Gandhi didn't take a knee, Martin Luther King didn't take a knee, Thomas Edison didn't take a knee, and I sure as hell am not going to take a knee." - Dan Hawkins
Even if our conference was good we’d still get the shaft. Playing crappy conference teams all year? Its what we’re stuck with. Not our fault.
If your conference was good, you’d get the BCS tag. As it is, your conference blows (quite to your advantage as Dom pointed out), and you guys are paying the price for it. Join the MWC if you want to be legit. Show us you can beat a conference of Utah, BYU and TCU, and you’ll have your due. Go undefeated in that conference and you’re on your way sport.
I don’t see adult league soccer teams scrimmaging with 4th graders and wondering why they’re not playing in the MLS Cup in November.
Addicted To Quack [dot] com; Good luck in the WNBA, Kamyron!
It would be great
to just ‘join the MWC’ like you say. But unfortunately, its not that simple.
And we’re 12-1 against MWC since joining the WAC and D-1 since 2001. The only loss against TCU last year at the Pointsettia.
Funny analogy, a little over the top though.
"Gandhi didn't take a knee, Martin Luther King didn't take a knee, Thomas Edison didn't take a knee, and I sure as hell am not going to take a knee." - Dan Hawkins
So we’ll beef up our OOC in the mean time, and keep winning our conference, but its still not gonna matter in the end.
Will you quit your whining? Holy crap. This is just getting pathetic. The BCS and the bowl system is not about "fairness." It has never been and never will be. It is about making money. Even when BSU and TCU had an intriguing bowl game, they couldn’t pull in the ratings of Miami/Cal, Wisconsin/Florida State, etc. Start bringing in ratings and money, and you’ll be included. And if you’d stop for two freaking seconds you’d realize just how far your team (and all non-BCS teams) has come in 10 years. This is not an overnight thing, and change will take a while.
Now, everyone here wants a better system. But your suggestions have been flat out ridiculous and would never in a million years work, and your team hasn’t worked the system as it could be worked. So you’d been reduced to complaining about how unfair everything is.
So suck it up just like Oregon fans did when our team was bad and had the uphill battle. Boise State can works its way into better bowl games and more money in this system.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
I never
made any particular suggestions. So I don’t know what exactly is flat out ridiculous.
I’ve just stated the BCS needs to change. (Now I’ll make suggestions)
It can re arrange the MWC and WAC into one conference. Or it could create a playoff system.
Both fairly easy concepts that most definitely wouldn’t take a million years to implement.
"Gandhi didn't take a knee, Martin Luther King didn't take a knee, Thomas Edison didn't take a knee, and I sure as hell am not going to take a knee." - Dan Hawkins
what needs to be changed is that hideous blue field that boise st plays on. changing that would go a long way towards enhancing boise st’s credibility
by WhenDUXattacK! on Jul 19, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions
As much could be argued against Oregon's uniforms.
Addicted To Quack [dot] com; Good luck in the WNBA, Kamyron!
This Duck fan loves both BSU's field and Oregon's uniforms.
I mean, who wants to look just like everyone else?
could somebody with photoshop skills and a lot more time than me
please take a pass at the potential combinations for turf + boise unis + oregon unis that we may see in september?
this will demonstrate the horrible possibilities of “innovation”: one, ok, two… errr… three… aw come one, we never meant to put all three turds next to each other.
what happened to the color adjust on the tv?
somebody’s gonna go blind and get hurt out there, it’s just not right
thank you, and get off my lawn.
by Bill Musgrave on Jul 20, 2009 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Do you really think that BSU would win the Championship.....
If it had to go through Ohio State LSU Texas and Florida on the way. I bet BSU loses at least one if not all of those match ups, well I think they would beat Ohio State but that is all.
by RipCityRoyCity on Jul 23, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions
You’re right tho, we are better than that. And I could sit here and pick apart your sentences and think of quirky little remarks all day but I won’t.
Sure, go for it. I’m making points about your statements. My statements are open for criticisms just as yours are. If you don’t want to be challenged on what you say, don’t post or go start your own blog.
And are you still serious about the BCS being more than fair? Non-big conference affiliated teams made twice as much revenues before the system started in 1998. From 1984-1990 was the most revenue non big conference teams earned, being about 30% of the total ncaaf revenue. Today its a mere %14 of the total.
I never claimed the BCS was fair. In fact, I’ve claimed quite the opposite. Complaining about it has gone on since the inception of the BCS and will continue forever. The fact remains that you aren’t likely to see it changed, especially when the non-BCS “powerhouses” continue to bitch…then turn right around and sign the contracts. As JT has said, the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Its not fair but griping about it when your school signs up to play by the rules is something between you and your school.
This is not a good thing you’re supporting here. If university presidents, athletic directors, professors, fan, members of congress and the President are all against it, somethings obviously not right.
Guess what. University Presidents generally support the BCS and with the revenues coming in, they will continue to support it. Yeah, a couple of presidents will bluster up every now and then, but when the check comes in the mail… they go back in their hole until the next time they need to sign the contract.
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
Sorry
It was BisonDucks who said the BCS was more than fair.
As far as the University Presidents and signing contracts, what else can they do?
The sytems virtually a monopoly, hence the Senate’s anti-trust pursuit between the BCS and the Department of Justice.
So when schools like Boise State and Utah sign those contracts, they do it under the gun.
Their schools depends on football revenue for athletics as well as academics. Even if its only a sliver of what the BCS is makes, it helps a lot. But its not right. They’re forced to sign these contracts for the well being of their university and to keep their job. They’re not hiding in a hole, their doing whats best for their community.
This rich can get richer, but the poor shouldn’t get poorer because they’re restrained. Thats not right.
"Gandhi didn't take a knee, Martin Luther King didn't take a knee, Thomas Edison didn't take a knee, and I sure as hell am not going to take a knee." - Dan Hawkins
It's been more than fair to you...
we on the other hand have been snubbed out of the NC game in ‘01 and lost out to a much inferior ND team in ’05. Of course, I am not going to bitch about it. I just find it ironic that a team like BSU has the best chance year in and year out because the MWC is likely not to produce an undefeated team becaue of parity. You got your BCS invite in ’06 and should be very well on your next year if the spread holds to the form in our game because TCU, UTAH and BYU will likely take each other out othe running. You see we have to come out the scenario next year with 1 loss against, BSU, UTAH, Cal, USC, and Oregon State as all preseason top 25 and 3 top 15. So, which team’s path do you prefer???
If I had to pick a team going to the BCS this year...
my pick: BSU. They have to beat us at home and than free sailing from there on out. The BCS is not fair but to you guys it’s more than fair. You got to play OU in 2006 and you have a very good shot in 2009.
Btw, Fresno State played Wisconsin, Rutgers and UCLA in their OOC. Can’t fault them for a lack of cajones, that is for sure.
Btw, Fresno State played Wisconsin, Rutgers and UCLA in their OOC. Can’t fault them for a lack of cajones, that is for sure.
Other than Oregon, Boise State plays Miami (OH), Bowling Green, Tulsa and UC Davis (an FCS school). That’s 5 OOC games … 5!! … and only one of them against a BCS school. Even if they do beat us, they don’t deserve a BSC Bowl after that OOC schedule coupled with their WAC matchups. It’s no wonder why they occasionally beat a BCS school … they only play 1 a year!
Unless the whole BCS set-up is changed, BSU is never going to control its own destiny in getting to a BCS bowl game. 12-0 would only get them in if a bunch of other high-profile BCS schools finish with two or more losses. If BSU beats Oregon and goes undefeated this year, and Oregon wins every other game (USC, Cal, Utah, Oregon State, etc.) and finishes 12-1, guess which team is much more likely to land in a BCS game? Right, Oregon, who would be a lock as Pac-10 champ. BSU could still get in, but might not if the SEC has two or more teams will two or fewer losses on strong OOC strength, or the Big 12, or the Big 10, maybe even the ACC or Big East, or if Notre Dame has a 2- or 3-loss season.
The BCS isn’t a playoff. It isn’t an arrangement for fairness or a means of evening the playing field. It’s a way to say: “We guarantee the season will finish with #1 playing #2 and tons of people will be watching on TV…all advertisers come give us all your money.” How many times does jtlight have to say it – this is a business arrangement and BSU, or other top-of-the-heap WAC team, has little to bring to the table beyond a passionate fan base. It sucks for you BoiseState. Get over it.
I'm really tired of it not being football season.
The BCS isn’t a playoff. It isn’t an arrangement for fairness or a means of evening the playing field. It’s a way to say: "We guarantee the season will finish with #1 playing #2 and tons of people will be watching on TV…all advertisers come give us all your money." How many times does jtlight have to say it – this is a business arrangement and BSU, or other top-of-the-heap WAC team, has little to bring to the table beyond a passionate fan base. It sucks for you BoiseState. Get over it.
Boise State vs Oklahoma in the Fiesta bowl in 2006-07 scored an 8.4 rating, one of the worst ratings of any BCS game since 1998
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
No one
should care about the tv ratings.
This is about collegiate athletes deserving a fair shot. It should not about money or ratings, but the promotion of fair competition and business ethics.
"Gandhi didn't take a knee, Martin Luther King didn't take a knee, Thomas Edison didn't take a knee, and I sure as hell am not going to take a knee." - Dan Hawkins
You're right
BSU will never control its own destiny unless the system is given a complete makeover. Which it needs.
And thank you JConant and jtlight for stating the obvious:
YES, the BCS is in it for the money and nothing else.
YES, its unfair and screws even its own teams
NO, it doesn’t have to be like this.
Thats all I’m getting at. The BCS can create a better system that can benefit everyone and still crown a legit national champion. Sorry for believing in equality, but every schools should get a shot at the championship, not just half of them.
"Gandhi didn't take a knee, Martin Luther King didn't take a knee, Thomas Edison didn't take a knee, and I sure as hell am not going to take a knee." - Dan Hawkins
I really hope they do go to a playoff format.....
so BSU can lose the the 3rd best team in the SEC in the first round.
by RipCityRoyCity on Jul 23, 2009 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t think a tough OOC schedule is even going to help much.
You have a team like Fresno State that have been known for playing some tough teams, and even being competitive – yet they can’t win their own conference. When that happens, that’s a no-win scenario for the OOC teams. They have nothing to gain, and everything to lose. So even setting up a home-home is can be a pretty bad idea. High risk and no reward.
If Oregon loses to BSU, their only chance for a BCS game is by winning the Pac-10.
"It’s spelled S-H-U-F-E-L-T-M-E-U-P"
For BoiseState and Dan Hawkins:
It is clear.
The evening of September 3, 2009, will be measurable on the Richter Scale. Better get Enterprise to bring in a fleet of ambulances and a gaggle of gurneys. This may be the hardest hitting game in all of college football this year. Take no prisoners. Ask no, give no, quarter.
Sportsmanship? Not after the coin toss. You better have your chin strap snapped up twice even if you’re watching on TV. Kevlar vests will be required in Bronco Stadium.
Offensive coordinators around the world will be as fixed upon strategies as were chess masters enthralled by a Spassky-Fisher match but with with mayhem (the crime of willfully inflicting a bodily injury on another so as to make the victim less capable of self-defense or, under modern statutes, so as to cripple or mutilate the victim.)
No one knows what defensive schemes can possibly work but KNOW that this game will be studied for years.
And in a footnote, Gandhi not only took a knee, his strategy WAS knee taking as was that of the Reverend Dr. King. I don’t know what Thomas Edison did in that regard but all three of those guys brought some light into the world and they all seemed to play fairly.
Isn't this moot?
When Oregon beats BSU on Sept. 3rd, we won’t have to hear any whining until next year…
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