MBB Game 18 Recap: California 89 - Oregon 57
by dvieira on Jan 22, 2010 12:13 PM PST
in Oregon Ducks Basketball
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PrintWatching this game killed me because I felt like we were doing the right things for the first 10 minutes of the game but we just couldn't contain Cal defensively and they lit it up from beyond the arc. Cal was the preseason pick to win the Pac-10 for a reason and they showed it on Thursday night. I wish we would stop getting teams after they get blown out but I doubt that would have helped us in this contest. Once the Bears started to rain threes, the lead got pushed up and we reverted back into the frustration that has plagued us over the last four games.
The game plan early was simple.
1) Create motion within the offense (effective)
2) Go to Dunigan down low on the block for easy buckets (not effective)
3) Play in control and limit opportunities on the defensive end (somewhat effective)
Offensively, our motion looked good especially in the first 10 minutes of the game. Cuts were sharp and the ball was passed crisply and with purpose. This gave us plenty of opportunities throughout the game to get open looks from all over the court but we couldn't take advantage. Shot selection, for the most part, was pretty good. Yes, we had the TP clank every now and then but shots were there to be made. Longmire in particular had a bad night going 0-9 from the field but he was active on the court and was trying hard to make plays, perhaps a little too hard.
Going to Dunigan on the block was a challenge because Cal's game plan was to guard him straight up and he couldn't get the ball in the hoop. He was off balance a few times but mostly just got pushed off and couldn't keep his position down low. When his shots did go up, they weren't true and most of his points came off of offensive rebounds and put backs. I liked the strategy because it looked like it would be effective going into the game and it's refreshing to have a true post presence. When that guy doesn't cause double teams however, and can't make the shots, we pay the price.
On defense, we did an ok job for about 10 minutes and then we couldn't stop the barrage of 3 point baskets from the Bears. There was a key moment in the first half where we had kept it close and a few turnovers turning into shots from beyond the arc sealed our fate. We played in control for the first part of the game but when things got out of hand, we reverted back to "rat ball" and Cal took advantage.
Final Thoughts
This was our 4th loss in a row and even though I didn't except to win, I thought the game plan in the game was sound. Armstead did a much better job in getting through screens in comparison to the Arizona game and TP was mostly in control. Armstead was the primary ball handler and we were a much more controlled team. Most of our turnovers occurred on the block with Dunigan getting stripped or when Cal made a good defensive play.
The calls for Ernie's head are growing louder and, at times, it looks like the players are trying to shoot him out the door. The staff can only get them so many open shots before they have to start getting them to fall. The talent disparity right now between Cal and Oregon is pretty telling. We may still be a young team but let's face it... most everyone in the Pac-10 is.
Cal and ASU are leading the Pac-10 right now, our other losses are to last place OSU and middle of the pack Arizona. Our stretch "should" get easier over the next few games as we start taking on more middle of the pack teams but we have to face the fact that we aren't a very good team. We may be 10-8 but without making open shots, we will be lucky to get any more wins. 12 games left before the Pac-10 tourney. Ernie will probably need 4-6 wins to save his job and after the last 2 weeks, I don't see any gimmies on the schedule.
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Dom, you’re right in saying that a coach can’t make open shots for the players, so why should it be Ernie’s fault we went 1/18 from 3? The way I see it, this may be a “change because change is needed” situation. The team is playing without consistent energy, and a change is needed to reset this mindset. Is it completely Ernie’s fault? Of course not. But part of the responsibilities that come with being head coach is having to take that blame, even when it’s not deserved. It’s Ernie’s team, so when the team doesn’t win, who gets the blame? In college, you can’t trade players or sign free agents, so the change has to come with staff. Also, Lekendric Longmire needs to not take out of control layups when the other two people under the rim are Michael Dunigan and Jerome Randle. Maybe give the ball to the huge guy and let him dunk it over the tiny guy.
It's spelled "T-H-E-I-M-P-A-C-T"
I support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
Addicted to Quack, the home of Tako Tuesdays
I support this statement
Lekendric Longmire needs to not take out of control layups when the other two people under the rim are Michael Dunigan and Jerome Randle. Maybe give the ball to the huge guy and let him dunk it over the tiny guy.
Saying Longmire had a bad night is an understatement. His shot selection was terrible and he looked really bad. Hustle can only get you so far.
I hear what you say about players not making shots. I want Kent fired so Im going to circle a bunch of logical ideas around on themselves and say: If he is such a great recruiter, reason he is here, why can’t his great recruits make shots?
I Don't Yell O I SCREAM!
If he is such a great recruiter, reason he is here, why can’t his great recruits make shots?
I think this begs the question. Is Ernie a great recruiter? Dunigan was a 4 star guy coming in but wasn’t nearly ready to play last year.
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
not to pile on, but Malik Hairston was a great recruit who took years.
I call him Malcolm Arm-stud!
Addicted to Quack
Love these two guys but Malik Hairston was the Cameron Colvin of Men’s Basketball
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
That’s a little harsh. The guy averaged 12 points and 5 boards for his career, shot over 50% from the field and around 40% from 3.
It's spelled "T-H-E-I-M-P-A-C-T"
I support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
Addicted to Quack, the home of Tako Tuesdays
Perhaps it was a bit harsh, you’re probably right.
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
Honestly, I just don’t think he fit well in Ernie’s system. He wasn’t proactive enough. You need players to make stuff happen. He just didn’t seem to have that in him.
TP on the other hand, is trying to be Aaron Brooks, when he is in no way qualified to do that.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
not to pile on, but Malik Hairston was a great recruit who took years.
Malik was a 13 and 5 guy his freshman year but he did show improvement each year.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/oregon/malik-hairston
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
This may be the most optimistic summary of a 32-point loss in history. I admire you for that, Dom.
Yes, the Fire Ernie! drum has been beaten loudly and repeatedly, but I’ll offer this: it’s clear that something has to change, if not for the better, than just to convince the paying customers that the Athletic Department is willing to do something.
You constantly talk about how the players aren’t performing, even when it appears the game plan is solid. And you’re right, for the most part. But there are two problems there:
1) The players aren’t going anywhere. Bellotti can’t fire the players.
2) If the players aren’t performing it’s either because they’re not that good (recruiting), they’re not being developed properly (coaching), or they’re not being given the best opportunity to succeed in the right system (coaching). Sure, there are other minor things, like bad luck, shooting slumps, etc. So it’s not that black and white. But the three MAIN things are all Ernie’s department .
I was ambivalent about Ernie up until a little while ago. Now I think he has to go before next season.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
Rumor mill
Folks- this is only a rumor- but athletic department buzz is that a key player on the Men’s BB player wants a transfer… and if leaves another notable player will likely follow.
Again, this is a unconfirmed rumor- take it for what it’s worth…
Armstead and Jacob?
It's spelled "T-H-E-I-M-P-A-C-T"
I support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
Addicted to Quack, the home of Tako Tuesdays
Yeah, that makes more sense.
It's spelled "T-H-E-I-M-P-A-C-T"
I support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
Addicted to Quack, the home of Tako Tuesdays
Yeah, I would have a hard time seeing that sort of discontent from two guys in their first year here, particularly with Armstead playing significant minutes and playing pretty well.
It’d have to be really discontent-ish.
It's spelled "T-H-E-I-M-P-A-C-T"
I support Roger Kieschnick in his quest to becoming the best Kieschnick ever to play professional baseball.
Addicted to Quack, the home of Tako Tuesdays
yikes, just that these rumors exist says a lot of things about our program
I know its my fault, but even just the fan discontent with the coaching is enough to shake a program. Something drastic needs to happen or our basketball team could head down a slippery slope. I would hate to see all the good Kent has done for this program slip away under the guidance of Kent.
I Don't Yell O I SCREAM!
Wouldn't read too much into it
It’s mid-year and players get frustrated.
And since we’re guessing, I’m going Dunigan and Crittle
Crittle would make more sense if any of this is right.
Addicted To Quack [dot] com
I have a Ropert is God™ complex.
Last night’s performance (or lack thereof) has me thinking. Personally I get what Dunlap and Kent are trying to do, I just think the damage is too great for it to be remedied in one season.
Oregon won in UW by playing efficient basketball look at the stats. They had a 127 efficieny rating. Oregon has to play more efficient if they want to utilize the weapons on their team (i.e. Dunigan and post play). In previous seasons Oregon was around a 112. This year on a whole they are averaging 106 (last year was a 97). What I am saying is it is a process to make a team more efficient. Oregon is not going to jump from 97 to 112 or higher over night.
Here’s the problem. There isn’t much time to make this happen. I’m not sure Ernie has “lost” his players, but he can’t feel like he has complete control over what they are doing. Bench TP for 2 minutes, meh. Yell and scream on the sidelines, who cares. At some point we have to worry about the players just giving up on Ernie and “going rogue” a la Washington and Willingham. These players are not robots and they know that their coach’s (who recruited them) job is in their hands. Can their pysche hold out long enough to get their coach the wins needed to keep him around? Does Ernie go to them and plead for more efficient play? Does he do something dramatic and bench a number of guys who aren’t playing well in hopes that a big move helps light a spark? What’s the answer?
So here’s my question. Would it ever make sense to remove a coach in the middle of the season to salvage future seasons?
If you answer yes, why?
If you answer no? What recipe would you prescribe for getting guys who aren’t playing well and may be on the verge of tuning their coach out to start to listen and play better?
I call him Malcolm Arm-stud!
Addicted to Quack
If he’s lost control of the locker room, then yes, he needs to go immediately. Once a coach has lost respect and the capacity to lead/teach, he’s effectively useless. And he may actually do harm (see players transferring above). Even if there is only a temporary solution, the bleeding has to be stopped. Once a player has soured on the coach, it’s a very short leap for him to sour on the program and the school in general. I don’t watch enough games or read enough of the local coverage to know whether Ernie really has lost them. If he has, though, he should go.
In all other cases, I would advise waiting until after the season. If it’s a process that has stalled, or poor game planning, or just players lack of execution, the coach is ultimately responsible for turning it around. And that’s even more true this year, since the Ducks are going to want as much goodwill as possible moving into that expensive new arena. But if the players still respect him, it won’t hurt to let him stay on. Firings in the middle of the season are always messy. If I were Bellotti, I would want to avoid that if possible.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
Love him, hate him, or something in between
Ernie has done too much for this program to suffer a mid-season firing. That is the ultimate slap in the face. It wouldn’t break my heart to see him go at season’s end, but the man is a Duck, and he played on that court as a Duck, and he deserves to see this season through, disappointing though it may be to all of us. Just my opinion.
That’s a really tough call. Do you allow your program to be set back several years when frustrated young players transfer? Or do you show those players you’re willing to make a tough decision to get the program moving in the right direction? For a team that’s moving into a brand new building and asking fans to pay more for tickets (aside from all the funding that went into the building itself), I think it would be an absolute DISASTER to have to spend an extra two years of rebuilding because players couldn’t handle Ernie any more and transferred.
But that’s worst case scenario. Maybe it’s gotten that bad, but I don’t know. If it has, I think Oregon has to make the move, no matter how much Kent has given them.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
I understand your point, but making a change is not a guarantee of immediate success, either. Look, I’m no Ernie apologist…I agree with many that it’s time for a change in direction. But I believe a mid-season change is unwarranted here. And as far as transfers or the threat of transfers goes, do you want your program hijacked by 18-20 year-olds? If they want to go, let ‘em. Kids can be fickle; When the program is realizing success, you’ll have talented kids transferring due to lack of playing time. When the program hits the skids, you’ll have kids looking for greener pastures. The UO has more to offer these kids than they have to offer the school. And yes, get off my lawn.
I don’t think the point is immediate success. In fact, changing coaches might make them worse, if that’s possible. But if Ernie has lost the locker room, his effectiveness as a coach is over. And firing him is at least change of some kind, which sends the message that the school wants to get the basketball team on the right track. And yes, players do transfer, but when all it takes to avoid the transfer is firing a coach who isn’t getting anything done, then you might as well do it.
Like I said, this is worst case scenario, and I doubt that it happens. But if the worst case scenario does happen, you have to throw out personal feelings for the sake of the program as a whole.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
You can't fire EK midseason
As much as we need a change, I will never support that. He needs to go, but his accomplishments deserve at least that much respect.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
If you don’t have any respect for what Ernie has accomplished, then I hate to see what you say about Chip Kelly when he has his first 7-5 or 8-4 season.
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
Ha! If Kelly goes 1-8 in conference play, then we can talk.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
you say that now but how were you feeling when Bellotti had his losing season?
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
Thinking that people who wanted to fire him were crazy. I wanted Ludwig gone, however, and that turned out pretty well.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
A very smart man once told me the correlation between the basketball team and football is irrelevant
I call him Malcolm Arm-stud!
Addicted to Quack
The correlation may be irrelevant, but calling out someone with no indication of respect for history is relevant. Chip Kelly goes to the Rose Bowl this year, 2 years from now he goes 7-5. Does DD start calling for him to be fired because the past means nothing?
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
Probably not, but if we are only talking record, as jtlight said, 1-8 in conference followed up the next year with a start of 1-2 in conference and people are going to be feeling different no matter what CK did 3 years ago.
Add to that the fact that there is little hope (I don’t think we can discount how many people feel there is no hope for salvaging this coach and team) then I am not surprised that people disregard past accomplishments.
I call him Malcolm Arm-stud!
Addicted to Quack
Alright then, I’ll continue to be the lone wolf on this one. If the past means nothing and Ernie is just a basketball coach that doesn’t win, then my view and everyone else’s view will be different and quite frankly, I’m fine with that.
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
Does DD start calling for him to be fired because the past means nothing?
Why on earth would Dennis Dixon be calling for his head? I think that’s more of a Brian Paysinger thing to do.
Addicted To Quack [dot] com
I have a Ropert is God™ complex.
Partly playing devils advocate (mostly just curious)
So why? What does Oregon really owe Ernie? If (big if) the team is going into a tailspin and tuning him out, what good does it do to let him finish the season? If this wasn’t the last year of Mac court would you feel differently? Should me moving from my home determine when I fire my personal trainer? Are they correlated and should we really care? Lastly, can we sacrifice the recruiting year (and the year after and possibly the year after the year after) just for accomplishments deserving sake?
I respect Ernie and what he’s done, but at what point do you put the program and school ahead of what he deserves? Oregon will be here a hell of a lot longer than Ernie and I would hate to suffer through 3 more seasons of irrelevance and struggles when there might something that could be done now.
I also don’t think I am the only one who feels the way I feel. There might be a reason Oregon re-did Ernie’s contract, brought in Dunlap but left the buyout clause essentially the same. Cost of separating financially is not greater today, last year or end of this year. Cost of waiting for the product put forth on the floor??? That might be increasing.
I call him Malcolm Arm-stud!
Addicted to Quack
This year’s recruiting class will have 2 guys in it. We’re already almost halfway through Pac-10 play. Firing him now doesn’t save you recruits or suddenly put you in the ballpark for top-150 guys for next season. If Ernie is that bad, the only think you can hope for is instant fire, instant turnaround by winning out and MAYBE those guys will give you a look.
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
As far as I’m concerned, the ONLY legitimate reason to fire him midseason is if he’s lost the respect of the players. If none of them are listening to him, then the only reason to keep him on is to honor some sort of unwritten code that they can’t fire a long-time coach midseason.
But if it’s apparent that Ernie’s not getting through, they risk the young guys on this team – the ones we still believe have potential – either transferring or bringing their development to a complete stop because they’re just going through the motions. They also risk losing more and more fans who they’re going to need to fill up the new arena next year. Yeah, you can call those fans fickle bandwagoners, and you’d be justified in doing so, but fickle bandwagoners buy tickets to watch a winning team.
This isn’t about “respect” or anything like that. If Ernie is still getting through to the players, then yes, he should absolutely stick around for the rest of the season, at least. You never want to fire a coach midseason, especially not one who has done so much for the program. But if Ernie’s lost control of the locker room, the potential for disaster is too great to let it pass. In that case, as hard as it may be, it will be much better in the long run if Ernie goes immediately, in spite of his years of service.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
Dom, I like you. You seem to have integrity. Whether you know or don't, where the 'bodies are buried,' I don't know.
Ernie had integrity. Now he’s got a bleeding ulcer. That ulcer is talking to us. It’s been talking for 3 years to me. First I just got up and left the game. Then I kept my season tickets but gave most of them away. This year I wouldn’t renew, inn spite of the fact the renewal would help me get great seats in the new joint. Now, I want for them to play well, have fun but it still ain’t happnin’. As a long term Duck, he’s got some leverage but the truth is, no matter who likes it or not, he’s lost IT. He’s lost his team and his mojo. His mojo ain’t workin’ in a variety of ways that it used to work (see definition of mojo.)
If for some reason, Chip lost his integrity, I think some similar would happen to him, to me and to other fans. You see, it’s not just the losing, it’s what has been ‘lost.’
I think also that Chip’s integrity has set the bar higher than it used to be (read your Duck history to which benzduck alludes from time to time.) It’s better than Bellotti and miles beyond Brooks.
We expect more now, not just in athletics but also in academics, administration ad service positions in the university.
Perhaps firing Ernie (and/or Bert) mid season would set an awkward precedent. Sometimes, perhaps, that’s the best thing, too. I’ll go along with what Chip says.
"We'll go."
This is mysterious, I like it.
Some questions I take from this:
Where are the bodies buried?
What is the ucler saying to us?
How does an ulcer communicate with its human host and/or other humans?
If the ulcer doesn’t speak english or some other intelligble human language, how does DONALDUCK have the power to decipher what it is saying?
Why is Bert always getting fucked for Ernie’s faults?
I feel like I’m watching LOST or a similar ethereal plot line. I can’t wait for the conclusion.
"Computers are useless. They can only give you answers."-Pablo Picasso
by Bill Musgrave on Jan 23, 2010 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
Here's the concussion:
1. The bodies are buried on Sesame Street.
2. The ulcer is saying, “I’m eatin’ Ernie and Bert is next.”
3. Its gotta be bleeding to communicate very well (seee line two.)
4. I don’t know. You apparently either got it or you don’t.
5. Blame it on the spread.
6. This is college football in the off season. We HAZ IZ LOST.
"We'll go."
EK and Mac Court are inextricably linked over the past 36+ years..
.. and should remain so.
Let him finish out the year, then get a fresh start.
Things can’t get much worse.
those who do not remember history should read my blog...
Does anyone know
if there is any possible to watch or DL the Oklahoma-Oregon game? (Autzen) I would pay money to be able to see this game over and over.
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