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SHUFELT Computer Poll; Week 5

Here are things about the poll:

  • It has a memory. It will remember what happened in Week 1. Team A may look bad Week 1, but in Week 6, they don't look so bad. 
    •  That means the values are dynamic. To take an example from this year, Boise State squeaked by a highly ranked Virginia Tech team. The next week, Virginia Tech lost to James Madison. Boise State's close call to Virginia Tech does not look NEARLY as impressive now. Week 1 scores will actually change dynamically based upon results, not just Week 1, but every week of college football.
  • Style points matter. This includes the margin of victory. Nobody is impressed when you pull of a 1 point squeaker to Saint Mary’s school of the blind. But everyone would be impressed when Alabama is beaten 35-0.
    • NEW!: There is now a diminished return on MOV. The larger the MOV, the less each point is worth. 
  • There is no pride in playing an FCS team.
  • NEW! Location has a small influence on the scoring. A slight penalty for the home team, and a slight bonus for the visiting team. Neutral fields cancel each other out.
  • There are three main values. (There are several formulas that make up these values, but I am going to try and simplify it). A score of 0 is neither good nor bad. 
    • Team Avg (Team Average); This is simply your team’s performance in a game based upon a formula I’ve made up.
    • Opp Avg (Opponent Average); This is an aggregated value of your opponent's Team Average. 
    • NEW! VoW Avg (Value of Win Average.); This is the resume score. Good team vs. Good team will = Great ; Bad team vs. bad team = Awful
      • I’ll also be putting up a number next to each extra curricular awards. This is the VoW, (Value of Win). It is a score that factors in the Team's performance vs. their Opponent's resume. A team with a large win vs. a great team will result in a great VoW.
    • I can make the numbers simple for you to understand. Negative is bad, positive is good. The further the number is from 0, the more extreme it is. -5 is bad, +5 is good. 0 represents neither good nor bad. This is applicable to all the scores you'll see.
  • You get points for playing well against good teams, win or lose. You'll get more for beating good teams, but there is no shame for losing to a good team - as long as it is actually a good team. If you're 4-0, but it's all against FCS teams and the New Mexicos, you'll probably have a decent Team Avg, but your Opp Avg is going to make an embarrassment out of your team.
  • Prior to week 1, ALL FBS teams are equal. Previous years have no influence on the poll.
  • There are no bonus or penalty points for being in or absent in a BCS conference.
  • A team's opponent's opponent's opponent's opponent's (potentiality infinite) score has influence on a team's perception. Meaning: Texas Tech's (Who played New Mexico, who played Oregon) score will influence Oregon  's score.
  • You now already know more about my computer poll than the ones that actually influence the BCS.
    Here is the current standings of the Top 25.

Star-divide

RankTeamValue of Win Avg.Diff.
1 Alabama 3.728 0.000
2 Oregon 3.088 0.640
3 Florida 3.001 0.727
4 Boise State 2.979 0.748
5 Ohio State 2.961 0.767
6 Oklahoma State 2.927 0.800
7 Oklahoma 2.508 1.220
8 Auburn 2.375 1.352
9 LSU 2.293 1.435
10 Arizona 2.167 1.561
11 Stanford 2.053 1.674
12 TCU 1.929 1.799
13 Oregon State 1.849 1.879
14 Iowa 1.651 2.076
15 Utah 1.539 2.188
16 USC 1.293 2.434
17 Missouri 1.244 2.484
18 UCLA 1.239 2.489
19 Miami (FL) 1.181 2.547
20 Notre Dame 1.090 2.638
21 California 1.067 2.660
22 North Carolina 0.899 2.828
23 Michigan 0.801 2.927
24 Washington 0.689 3.038
25 Florida State 0.621 3.107


There is a giant gap between Alabama and everyone else. 2-6 are all pretty close with each other. The resumes of some that have had tough competitions are making an appearance this week. Oregon State, by far, has the best Opp Avg in the country at 2.449. Them, Florida, Washington, Notre Dame, and UCLA are in the top 10 of Opp Avg. It is still early in the season, and some schools that have played FCS opponents are still being kept down by their atrocious schedules. I would anticipate seeing Nebraska, or Texas get into the top 25 next week. Nevada is going to start getting hammered due to the WAC. If Baylor can pull off a win vs. Texas Tech, I wouldn't be too shocked to see them get in the rankings next week.

Just remember, it is still early in the season, so there will be some big changes week-to-week, until we get through the second half of the season.

Now on to the extra curricular awards:


Flavor of the Week

This is awarded to the team that has the best win of the week. This is generally given to a team that has a solid win against a good team.

TeamOpponentVoW
Oregon Stanford 5.667
Alabama Florida 5.067
Virginia Tech NC State 4.229
Baylor Kansas 4.152
Florida State Virginia 4.048


Oregon went down 21-3 early Against Stanford, and by the end of it, they were leading by 21. Stanford has had a great team this year, so seeing Oregon on top here is no surprise. Of course, Alabama beating Florida is another great win for them.


Face Palm Award

This is awarded to the team that really should be embarrassed for their loss. This is generally given to the team that played poorly against a bad team.

TeamOpponentVoW
San Jose State UC Davis -11.095
Memphis Tulsa -4.248
Akron Northern Illinois -3.829
Boston College Notre Dame -3.448
Central Michigan Ball State -3.429


Another scheduled FCS team gets a win this season. They beat Southern Utah back in Week 3 by only 5 points. They are bad. Really bad. Like - probably would be in the bottom half of the Big Sky bad.

If we were to toss out FCS results, Memphis getting embarrassed by Tulsa by 41 is fairly funny in itself.


No Shame in Losing Award

This is awarded to the team that had the most respectable loss of the week. This is generally given to the team that played well against a good team.

TeamOpponentVoW
Stanford Oregon 2.705
Texas A&M Oklahoma State 1.881
Tennessee LSU 1.210
Illinois Ohio State 1.105
Florida Alabama 0.762


I don't know about you, but I think Stanford is a damn good team, despite losing to Oregon by 21 points. They should feel pretty good about their season, as they could easily end up in the Rose Bowl, or the Alamo Bowl this year.


Bitter Sweet Award

This is awarded to the team that the most disastrous win of the week. This is generally given to the team that played close against a bad team. Teams will find themselves here if they fail to win very convincingly against an FCS team.

TeamOpponentVoW
Fresno State Cal Poly -7.000
Mississippi State Alcorn State -5.857
UTEP New Mexico -1.790
Maryland Duke -0.781
UCLA Washington State -0.686


WAC gets no help as Fresno State decided to schedule Cal Poly. Mississippi State scheduled Alcorn. Zzzzzzz...

In games that didn't feature an FCS opponent, we have... UTEP and New Mexico? Oh boy...

After UCLA shocked the world by beating Texas last week, they almost got shocked themselves by WSU - at home.


Conference Strength Standings

Conf.WinLossVoW Avg
Pac-10 29 17 0.830
SEC 38 19 0.800
Big 12 41 12 0.305
Big Ten 39 13 -0.141
Independent 7 7 -0.197
MWC 21 22 -0.486
ACC 32 23 -0.809
C-USA 27 28 -1.137
WAC 22 20 -1.152
Big East 19 14 -1.619
Sun Belt 10 28 -1.854
MAC 24 39 -1.919


As it is pretty much shown in the Top 25, there are three good conferences right now. The Pac-10 gets the edge over the SEC this week, but the margin is very small.

Best Games of the Upcoming Week


Match UpAvg of Teams' Avg
Florida State vs. Miami (FL) 2.499
Michigan vs. Michigan State 2.343
Texas A&M vs. Arkansas 2.012
LSU vs. Florida 1.900
Syracuse vs. USF 1.881


Florida State vs. Miami (FL) are two teams that have had comparable results on the field. While Florida State has had an easier schedule, both teams have something to prove, and this is their game to do it. Both teams will look to improve their resume from this game, unless it turns into a blow out.

Michigan vs. Michigan State is the same story as FSU and Miami.

Texas A&M and Arkansas are two teams that have very comparable resumes - only one noteworthy game in a soft slate and that one game was within a close margin. 

LSU vs. Florida.  We'll hopefully get to see if Florida is legit. It's always fun to watch LSU, just to see what Les Miles does next at the very, very end of the game. 

Syracuse vs. USF is not really an exciting match that has any relevance, but it could turn out to be a rather exciting game.

Shoutout!

Finally, I want to give props to the comments last week, and to Matt Daddy. Keep the advice and suggestions coming. I'll update the post with a spreadsheet soon.

Poll
What do you think of this week's poll?
Keep going at it!
24 votes
I still want Takimoto to do the SHUFELT poll for now on.
1 votes
I want Matt Daddy to do the SHUFELT poll for now on.
0 votes
I want DaisyDuck to do the SHUFELT poll for now on.
3 votes
I want SUPWITCHUGIRL to do the poll for now on.
7 votes
I want to do the SHUFELT poll for now on.
10 votes

45 votes | Poll has closed

This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or the Addicted To Quack Moderators. FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable Oregon fans.

Comment 29 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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It's interesting that there are 8 Pac-10 teams in the top 25

You think that this is because of the typically tough non-conference schedules? I would think that Florida is high, but I guess their only loss is to the highest ranked team. We’ll see how it shakes out in the next couple weeks. I really like the extra circular awards! Good job!

by AKDuck on Oct 5, 2010 3:19 PM PDT reply actions  

It’s really is because of non-conference schedules.
In terms of team performance, the Big Ten and the Big 12 both have out performed the SEC and the Pac 10, but it’s been against weak schedules.

As conference play gets underway, we’ll see more diversity in the top 25 – mostly from the Big 12 and Big Ten.

It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-L-I-K-E-P-I-C-K-I-N-G-Y-O-U-R-N-O-S-E"

"I’ll give it my best shot, but you know I’m a signature ho." - daisyduck

by JShufelt on Oct 5, 2010 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions  

I would like to see..

For your extra awards you give us the format TEAM, OPPONENT, VoW; It would be more interesting to see some additional statistics with each, staying relevant to the topic of course. For example “the Bitter Sweet Award” I’d like to know what the point spread/Margin of Victory ended up being or the final score. Maybe that wasn’t as interesting as the TOP or the Turn over Margin.

Quack Quack Bitches.

by NewBorne on Oct 5, 2010 3:38 PM PDT reply actions  

If I do the poll from now on

we’re going to add Prada handbags and Tillamook Mudslide ice cream to the poll because I LOVE those things and really want to know how they would rank out against the best football teams in the country. I’m guessing Tillamook Mudslide is going to rank at about #8 (LSU really hasn’t impressed so far this year) and Prada is probably at about #19, mostly because I wasn’t all that thrilled with last season’s collection.

Also, we’re going to need to do it in Powerpoint going forward because I’m not so great in Excel and can do a pretty mean PP presentation with some pretty groovy transitions and other effects. Not sure if this will effect the way the ranking system works but I’m sure someone will let me know.

I’m thinking there are a couple of you that probably want to rethink your vote about now.

ATQ's #1 Matt Daddy fan

by daisyduck on Oct 5, 2010 3:40 PM PDT reply actions  

Of course you can’t use excel. Excel is for men.

Hey Daisy, git me anudder one!
Addicted to Quack

by Matt Daddy on Oct 5, 2010 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Really?

That’s your best shot? I was expecting a truly epic slam after all that garbage I said and the best you’ve got is “Girls can’t use Excel”??

ATQ's #1 Matt Daddy fan

by daisyduck on Oct 5, 2010 5:54 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions  

Matt Daddy is a female.

"I was being a smartass." --TQA8. October 4th, 2010. 8:26 PM PDT.

by axemen23 on Oct 5, 2010 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Question

Do you like the results of your ranking system, Joe? All the math is great (Lord knows I love me a good spreadsheet with vlookups and logic formulas), but does it do what you ultimately want it to do? I mean, subjectively speaking, Florida has no damn business being ranked third. They got hammered by Alabama and have looked very mediocre in every other game so far.

I know that if I had made this, and saw that spit out, I would think that something might need to be tweaked. I’m not trying to criticize the work you’ve done, just wondering what YOU think about it.

Defending maligned chants since 2009

by Gorbachav5 on Oct 5, 2010 4:22 PM PDT reply actions  

I was thinking about Florida this last Saturday, and the Alabama/Florida game. I was honestly wondering, does Florida look bad, or does Florida look more like a normal team now?

For as much hate as Tebow received, it is undeniable how much that offense focused around him, and how successful it was with him. Urban Meyer changed up their offense since they are Tebowless – and now all the guys that have been there for the last 3-4 years, are more-or-less, learning a new system.

Are they underachieving? Absolutely, with their talent, they are. But they are still winning games, and they’ll likely still be competitive in the SEC.

Do I like the results of my ranking system? Considering how many FCS games have been played, (81 so far this year), and that it is still early in the year, I am happy with the results.

Besides, there is plenty of time for Florida’s current competition to show that they really suck, and they still have Appalachian State coming up near the end of the year.

But the reason why people think Florida sucks is because they didn’t win convincingly against Miami (OH), USF, Tennessee, or Kentucky, but how do we know know, absolutely, that those teams aren’t going to go undefeated the rest of their year?

It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-L-I-K-E-P-I-C-K-I-N-G-Y-O-U-R-N-O-S-E"

"I’ll give it my best shot, but you know I’m a signature ho." - daisyduck

by JShufelt on Oct 5, 2010 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

Also, the difference between Florida being 3rd, and 5th is five-hundredths of a point – or less than one FG over the course of five games.

It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-L-I-K-E-P-I-C-K-I-N-G-Y-O-U-R-N-O-S-E"

"I’ll give it my best shot, but you know I’m a signature ho." - daisyduck

by JShufelt on Oct 5, 2010 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

This confuses me a little

You’re just saying that there’s a really small difference between #3 and #5, right? Or are you implying that your VoW has some meaningful units?

by AKDuck on Oct 5, 2010 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

I’m mainly saying that there is a very small difference between #3 and #5. It is nearly minuscule.

It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-L-I-K-E-P-I-C-K-I-N-G-Y-O-U-R-N-O-S-E"

"I’ll give it my best shot, but you know I’m a signature ho." - daisyduck

by JShufelt on Oct 5, 2010 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions  

Ok, cool

Just checking to make sure that the 3.107 VoW difference between bama and Florida State didn’t mean that bama would beat Florida State by an average of 3.107 points, or something along those lines.

by AKDuck on Oct 5, 2010 7:32 PM PDT up reply actions  

no he's saying that 0.05 in his VoW

is roughly = to one field goal. So if Florida scored one field goal less they would be at #5 instead.

Quack Quack Bitches.

by NewBorne on Oct 6, 2010 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions  

That is also what I’m saying.

It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-L-I-K-E-P-I-C-K-I-N-G-Y-O-U-R-N-O-S-E"

"I’ll give it my best shot, but you know I’m a signature ho." - daisyduck

by JShufelt on Oct 6, 2010 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions  

By the way, before I resubmitted the FanPost, there was another comment regarding Florida.

Here is the explanation about Florida:

To date, they have had the 5th most difficult schedule:

Miami (OH) has an Team Avg of -0.381; 3-2 record
USF has an Team Avg of 1.738; 3-1 record
Tennessee has an Team Avg of -0.219; 2-3 record
Kentucky has an Team Avg of 1.010; 3-2 record
Alabama has an Team Avg of 3.714; 4-0 record

Their easiest opponent has been Miami (OH). Every other team in the Top 25, except for Oregon State, has played an easier game

That’s an Opp Avg of 1.306, the national bar is current set at -0.817. For a close to home comparison, Oregon is at -2.256.

Florida’s opponents are 15-8 or 13-4 if you don’t count Florida’s record against it.

It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-L-I-K-E-P-I-C-K-I-N-G-Y-O-U-R-N-O-S-E"

"I’ll give it my best shot, but you know I’m a signature ho." - daisyduck

by JShufelt on Oct 5, 2010 4:30 PM PDT reply actions  

Something that made me think a little...

I saw that Notre Dame was ranked, and that Michigan State was not.

At first I thought that this was nuts. MSU won the head-to-head match up (barely), and is undefeated, while ND lost, and is at 2-3 on the season. But if you look at who ND has played, it’s a respectable list of opponents. MSU however, has played a bunch of nobodies, save Wisconsin. Similarly, even though MSU beat Wisconsin, the Badgers schedule isn’t impressive either. I can definitely see the logic playing out.

I do applaud the fact that this format heavily rewards scheduling tough teams (at least if you play well against them). I’m wondering though if in this version you implemented any reward for simply winning the game? I know this had been discussed before, but I didn’t see any mention of it in the description.

Just for the sake of argument, say a team plays all twelve of the teams that end up 1-12 in the final rankings, but loses all the games by 1 point. Do this team still deserve a top-25 ranking? My impulse would be to say no, but maybe that’s just the current system ingrained in my head.

by AKDuck on Oct 5, 2010 6:44 PM PDT reply actions  

Ah. My bad. I forgot to mention that.

When I added the diminished returns on MOV, I did add a small bonus for winning, and a small penalty for losing. Now, I have experimented with these rates some, and I may tweak them some for Week 3.

Personally, I’m way more comfortable ranking a team that has played well against a tough schedule, then say, Northwestern, that has played a completely laughable schedule. It is appalling that they may be Bowl Eligible after this next week.

It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-L-I-K-E-P-I-C-K-I-N-G-Y-O-U-R-N-O-S-E"

"I’ll give it my best shot, but you know I’m a signature ho." - daisyduck

by JShufelt on Oct 5, 2010 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions  

Because I am still making some changes to the formula, I have decided NOT to publicly share the spreadsheet yet.

I will when I feel like i have considered every aspect of a resume win, and it only comes down to tweaking the values of the variables, then I will.

With that said, I have made some changes in regards to the strength of an Opponent’s Opponents, and this will be reflected in the Week 6 Poll.

It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-L-I-K-E-P-I-C-K-I-N-G-Y-O-U-R-N-O-S-E"

"I’ll give it my best shot, but you know I’m a signature ho." - daisyduck

by JShufelt on Oct 6, 2010 9:41 AM PDT reply actions  

Can I offer a suggestion?

I like your poll, and I like the fact that style points count. But at some point in a blowout, a coach will start putting backups in. Since that point is different for every coach, it has the potential to punish a team who pulls their starters earlier than another team.

I’d recommend counting style points up to about 40, but any higher margin of victory shouldn’t change the ranking score.

Destiny is not a matter of chance, it is a matter of choice.

by CougarDuck on Oct 6, 2010 11:24 AM PDT reply actions  

Thanks for the suggestion.

While I understand that perspective, I believe if a team pulls their starters, and starts putting in 2nd, 3rd or 4th string guys, and they still continue to score, that reflects the depth of a team. Is it fair to punish a team that pulls its starters and continues to still beat the other team? I see a case to continue the reward if the team continues to perform with their backups.

However, there is a diminished return on the margin of victory. Your first +7 points in the spread are more valuable than the next +35.

Example:
Oregon earned 6.857 style points against New Mexico; without diminished return, they earn 10.286 style points.
Oklahoma State beat WSU by 48 points earned 4.571 style points; without diminished return, they earn 6.847 style points.
Ohio State, who beat Marshall by 38 earned 3.612 style points; without diminished return, they earn 5.429 style points.
LSU, who beat NC by 6 earned 0.571 style points; without diminished return, they earn 0.857 style points.

Now, I’ll continue to monitor the rate, and see if the DMU (Diminishing Marginally Utility) needs to be raised or lowered, but I view this more as a tweak than a change.

It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-L-I-K-E-P-I-C-K-I-N-G-Y-O-U-R-N-O-S-E"

"I’ll give it my best shot, but you know I’m a signature ho." - daisyduck

by JShufelt on Oct 6, 2010 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not sure this is right...

If you’re doing style points with a diminishing return on MoV, the style points should not be directly proportional to the MoV.

For instance, take the style points (with the diminishing returns) and divide it by the margin of victory for the four teams you mentioned above.

Oregon: 72/6.857 = 10.500
OK: 48/4.571 = 10.500
tOSU: 38/3.612 = 10.520
LSU: 6/0.571 = 10.507

So: MoV / (Style points) = 10.5 →→ (MoV)/10.5 = Style Points

It’s hard for me to say for sure without knowing what equations you’re using, but this sample suggests to me that in some manner, you’re taking the margin of victory, and dividing it by 10.5.

This is a problem if you don’t want a 42 point victory to be twice as valuable as a 21 point victory. Simply put, if you divide MoV by 10.5, you get 4 and 2 for the two hypothetical cases, respectively. The 42 point victory still gives you twice as many style points as the 21 point victory.

Maybe I’m just being a giant dummy and interpreting what you’re doing all wrong, but it seems to me that this isn’t really diminishing returns. If you don’t think I’m full of baloney, I have an equation that I think could help. I also have a graph (jpg) that kind of shows what I’m trying to say pretty well. I could email it to you, or possibly post it to this site if I knew how…

by AKDuck on Oct 6, 2010 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions  

That’s not really all that factors in to the style points. That is my mistake. That is simply diminishing returns on the MoV. Right now the MoV is divided by a variable, and then multiplied by the DMU variable. Currently, I do not have it as an exponential bleed. I looked at this originally, and then played with the concept again today. I haven’t decided if I will or not.

There are other factors, such as shutout, location, that contribute to the style points.

What I illustrated above is simply the contribution of MOV to the style points.

If you want, I’ll gladly look at what you have. Feel free to email me it, and we can discuss it there. My email is in my profile.

It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-L-I-K-E-P-I-C-K-I-N-G-Y-O-U-R-N-O-S-E"

"I’ll give it my best shot, but you know I’m a signature ho." - daisyduck

by JShufelt on Oct 6, 2010 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

How long before the Shufelt Spreadsheet becomes self aware?

And in trying to develop the perfect poll comes to the only logical conclusion that polls are inherently illogical, nonsensical attempts of assigning arbitraty class and elitism. Hence the only resolute answer it can find is to develop a virus to dismantle the BCS computers, Harris voters’ internet connections, and atheic departments’ internet connections to bring down the BCS system altogether?

And then Boise State plays the FCS champion in the National Title game after a solitary ballot arrives in Glendale, via telegram, from Idaho.

Ah Football, how I've missed you!

by AcadianTraverse on Oct 9, 2010 1:25 AM PDT reply actions  

I’ve told it that the poll isn’t used for anything useful. I think as soon as I tell it that it is 1/3rd of the BCS poll and a determining factor in who plays for the national championship, it starts SkyNet.

It’s spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-L-I-K-E-F-O-R-G-I-V-I-N-G-D-A-I-S-Y"

by JShufelt on Oct 9, 2010 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

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