LaMichael (2009 - 2010) Vs The Suffering (1972 - 1993). Guess who wins?
Let's honor the exploits of one LaMichael Keondrae James by comparing his season and career against the cumulative output of the entire cadre of Oregon backs from 1972 to 1993.
How does LMJ match up against the collected works of Don Reynolds, George Bennett, Jim Johnson, Kim Nutting, Vince Williams, Reggie Brown, Terrance Jones, Ladaria Johnson, Tony Cherry, Derek Loville, and Sean Burwell, and all the others who fumbled around for decades in the backfield?
It's a favorable comparison. (Yeah, surprise surprise.)
via t0.gstatic.com
This season, LaMichael James scored 21 rushing touchdowns in 11 regular season games. This exceeds the number of TDs scored on offense during 8 seasons of The Suffering. And it surpasses the team's entire rushing touchdown output between 1981 and 1983, when Oregon totaled 18 rushing touchdowns in 33 games.
LMJ's 1682 regular season net rushing yards beats the Oregon team season rushing totals in all but 7 of the 22 years of The Suffering. (Note: The 1990 team ran for 1674 yards in 12 games.)
LMJ's rushing yardage for 2010 surpassed the season rushing yardage of the entire 1993 Oregon team during the third quarter of his sixth game, against UCLA.
By the time LMJ scored his third touchdown against Washington for his 108th point, in his 8th game, he had outscored the entire 1982 Oregon team by five points. (The '82 Ducks scored 103 points on 11 TDs, 9 PATs, 8 FGs and two safeties. Only three of those TDs were by rushing.. which James pulled off three times this year, against Stanford, USC and UW.)
LaMike posted over 200 yards rushing three times in 11 games this season. This is as many 200 yard games as we saw during the 246 games of The Suffering. (Derek Loville did it twice, with 203 against ASU in '89 and 215 vs Idaho State in '88. And Tony Cherry ripped Stanford for 227 in '85. )

Tony Cherry (1984-85) and Derek Loville (1986-89)
With his nine games of 100+ yards, LMJ hit the century mark two more times than Oregon's backs managed in a string of seven seasons between 1981 and 1987. (Tony Cherry was responsible for five of those, in '85; Oregon didn't have a single 100 yard effort from '81 through '84, and Loville had one each in '86 and ‘87).
So, yeah, LMJ >> 22 cumulative years of suffering.
And more. After two seasons, he's the greatest Oregon running back ever, in my opinion.
Statistically, James is already the school's #2 all-time rusher, and needs just 68 yards to surpass Derek Loville for the career record.
Of Oregon's 10 most prolific running backs, five of them have played since 2000: LMJ, Snoop, TW, Jeremiah, and Mo. And James just pushed Onterrio Smith to #11. I'd say the transition of Oregon's offense from "pass-oriented" to "run-oriented" is complete.
And LMJ is the best of a great bunch; all five of his predecessors spent time in the NFL.
It's fun to measure LMJ's two-season output against 22 seasons of futility.
But the best ever? Compare him with Oregon's other great backs of the modern era.
- Mel Renfro, had he played in the two-platoon-era, might not even have played on offense.
- Bobby Moore had big numbers during the two seasons he spent at tailback. But Moore's 4.5 ypc number pales in comparison to LaMike's 6.1, James had more TDs this season than Moore had in two, and his career doesn't hold up against LMJ's. And Moore didn't lead his team to any bowl games, never mind a national championship game.
- Don Reynolds had the tools, but his teams were so bad we'll never know how good he might have been. His 8.1 ypc average in '72 is still the modern record, but was on just 52 tries. Once Enright started making him run into brick walls every week, his average became more human. And he scored just 12 TDs in three seasons.
- Jonathan Stewart had the best single season ever in '07, at least as of right now. Had he not been plagued by injuries in 2005, and used mostly for kickoff returns and short-yardage situations, his name might be at the top of the career lists. But he didn't dominate over his last two seasons the way James has during his first two.
- Reuben Droughns had the potential, but injuries ruined one season and slowed down the other, and he'll forever be the back that "might have" been the best ever.
- Maurice Morris was a workhorse in 2000, but wasn't even the best back on the team in 2001.
- Onterrio Smith's ypc numbers dropped in 2002 when he became The Guy. Not what you want to see.
- Derek Loville's Oregon career was a lot like his career with the 49ers -- a lot of carries, a lot of yards as a result, but he barely made 4 ypc, ran up a lot of his biggest yards against teams like Idaho State, and just wasn't spectacular enough to call the greatest ever. Certainly not in comparison with LMJ. One more note. It took Loville 4 seasons and over 800 carries to amass his 3,296 yards.
To me, there's no comparison with any of these great backs. Even if he forgoes playing in the BCS game because he wins Megabucks with a powerball sometime in the next four weeks, LaMichael James is worthy of consideration as Oregon's greatest running back of all time.
Anybody want to argue the point?
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or the Addicted To Quack Moderators. FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable Oregon fans.
90 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Say LMJ gets a little below his season average in the bowl game, finishes the year with 1800.
Over or under next year?
He’ll have an extra game (barring injuries). He’ll also have (hopefully) not just Barner to spell but Seastrunk and Williams likely to see some time. So he shouldn’t be seeing as amy touches, but also shouldn’t have to grind out as many games. He’ll also be a year stronger and wiser, and fresh legs to help break more long runs late in the year. It seems like he might have left a couple hundred yards of breakaways on the field the last several games that he hits if he’s 100%.
2 extra games
if you count pac 12 championship.
wants to challenge the definitions of sin and search the world for lovers of ultimate beauty but never settle in.
by joffthedeckk on Dec 12, 2010 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
I say there is a little regression to the mean
especially due to sharing more touches. A lot of his extra carries this year were due to Barner’s injury. I bet he gets around 1600 yards.
Yes.
Going to be an embarrassment of riches at RB next year.
"Beavers? We ain't got no Beavers. We don't need no Beavers! I don't have to show you any stinkin' Beavers!"
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Dec 12, 2010 9:04 PM PST up reply actions
I find myself wondering what Jeremiah Johnson's numbers would have been had he been present for the whole 2007 season.
He was definitely up there for me. Consistent, fast, an excellent improviser, and a great leader.
He was only five-foot-three but girls could not resist his stare... Chip Kelly never got called an asshole.
Snoop will always be my favorite
Dude is just beastly.
Third time's a charm.
the suffering?
Sorry guy. I was a fan when those that you label with such a disparinging tag were amazing Ducks. You can’t judge/compare them to the results of what they helped to build with clearly less talent around them under previous coaches and different styled offenses. They were all great, exciting Ducks to watch. This is a good article but the title reflects a fair weather fan view and a lack of insight of the Oregon football legacy.
Um, so, what would you define the period from '72-'94 as? Good football?
No, Oregon sucked.
I’d venture to say that Benzduck probably knows more than you about this period.
"(Kelly's) got a veteran team that is the favorite to win the Pac-10. His choice of Thomas reflects only one belief: He’s our best QB today."-Ted Miller
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Dec 12, 2010 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
good football
read the whole response before you reply in such a simplistic black and white view. It is much more about being a part of than comparing then and now, this or that, good or bad, this person knows more than that. I was and remain an alumni and huge fan and dreamed of and always knew it could come to what we have but it has been build over the course of 30 years, not with the arrival of the best running back in the country. Rich Brooks, Mike Bellotti, Chip, Tony cherry, Derek Loville, Reggy Ogburn, the great players at all positions that went on to the league, etc. etc. had a part in this. LMJ is of course the greatest Duck back ever. I do not dispute that. but suffering? No. It might not have always been winning football, but it was good and entertaining football.
The Suffering
is how that time period is referred to on this blog. There is a weekly post titled “This week in the suffering” (TWITS) that chronicles some of the occurences during “The Suffering”.
by sacduxnutz on Dec 12, 2010 11:48 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Calling
Benzduck a fair weathered fan is just incorrect. You should take a look at the fantastic history that he put together for the education of the AU fans over on Track Em Tigers (the Auburn blog here on SBNation).
by sacduxnutz on Dec 12, 2010 11:54 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
With all due respect,
it’s “REGGIE” Ogburn.
And you call yourself a “huge fan.” Sheesh.
As for the moniker, it wasn’t the players suffering.
I understand your sentimentality, but I can tell you that unless you got your kicks onschadenfreude, there was nothing “good and entertaining” about the 1975 Ducks. Or the 1982 model. I was there. In the stands. Were you?
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
I don't think spelling Reggie wrong
eliminates his huge fan status.
I disagree
You are just nitpicking in an attempt to diminish his credibility. He knew the name was Reggie, and spelled it wrong. But I won’t argue this pointless point any more.
I disagree with your disagreeability.
The least you can do is spell someone’s name right. And I always believe in doing the least I can.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
I have always felt at my best when doing my least.
by sacduxnutz on Dec 12, 2010 12:16 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I agree with you. It says little about his fanhood that he doesn't remember exactly how to spell a player from 30 years ago's name.
He was only five-foot-three but girls could not resist his stare... Chip Kelly never got called an asshole.
I'd like to grammarnazi his use of 'an alumni' then
because seriously, this is the stupidest argument we’ve had here in a while, and I’d like to make it stupider.
THAT'S RIGHT, Kenny Wheaton you did. You cut back into GREATNESS.
by HoodRiverDuck on Dec 12, 2010 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
Normally, I'm not anal about spelling in comments.
I don’t give an armpit fart about misspelling on a fansite.
I consider it a sign of respect to get a person’s name right. Or, disrespect for people like Jon Wliner.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
by benzduck on Dec 12, 2010 3:44 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
(or Jon Canzahno)
"[Autzen Stadium's] steep concrete banks and closed ends turn a small but rabid crowd from WAC-sized cheering section into a horde of bees with megaphones capable of reaching 127 decibels of hatenoise." -Spencer Hall
by ProbablyMonty on Dec 12, 2010 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
To me, he’s C*nz*n*.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
by benzduck on Dec 12, 2010 4:05 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
TRIPLE ASSHOLE
THAT'S RIGHT, Kenny Wheaton you did. You cut back into GREATNESS.
by HoodRiverDuck on Dec 12, 2010 6:42 PM PST up reply actions
I think your just sore because he called you a fair weather fan
"What the hell was that?"
"Spaceball One, they've gone to plaid!"
Where were you?
We called them the Fucks. You knew they’d either blow some seemingly safe lead or get destroyed by some mediocre team. It happened all the time. I was there and it was painful. Another common outcome would be coming up short in monumental comeback. Savor it now boys.
by doomsdaymachine on Dec 13, 2010 2:17 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Truth
Another common outcome would be coming up short in monumental comeback.
This used to happen a lot.
"What the hell was that?"
"Spaceball One, they've gone to plaid!"
You're new around here, aren't you?
Oregon loves you, Chip Kelly!
by gamedaytribe on Dec 12, 2010 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
Seriously?
“Sorry guy. I was a fan when…”
Underduck, Really? Want to got down History Street with Benzduck?
Put down your keyboard and walk away.
Luv a Duck
Completely incorrect.
The very idea that those of us who refer to The Suffering as The Suffering are in ANY way “fair weather fans” is off-base and misguided. Also, the idea that we don’t understand the legacy of Oregon football and the contributions of those who came before is likewise misguided.
"Beavers? We ain't got no Beavers. We don't need no Beavers! I don't have to show you any stinkin' Beavers!"
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Dec 12, 2010 9:08 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
Fair weather fans don’t suffer.
by doomsdaymachine on Dec 13, 2010 2:19 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Kim Nuting, just because of his name.
"(Kelly's) got a veteran team that is the favorite to win the Pac-10. His choice of Thomas reflects only one belief: He’s our best QB today."-Ted Miller
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Dec 12, 2010 11:07 AM PST reply actions
Nutting. Two Ts.
South Eugene kid. axemen23 probably has walked past his name in the trophy case a few times.
Kim was a walk-on for Don Read, who moved him from fullback to linebacker. Rich Brooks saw him, said “Fullback!”, and that’s where he played his senior year in ’77.
He was Oregon’s leading rusher that year, with 359 yards on 101 carries and four TDs. His best game was his last; he had 23 carries for 94 yards and two TDs against OAC (a 28-16 win).
Kim lives in Seattle now, and owns a home inspection agency.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
what trophy case?
we’re talking about SEHS football, ’member?
"Hawaii doesn't win many games in the United States." -Lee Corso
You guys kicked our asses every year, and WE had a trophy case.. I just assumed you had one.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
by benzduck on Dec 12, 2010 2:50 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
If that is the criteria
Herman Ho-Ching
by oregonsportsaddict on Dec 12, 2010 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
too early
while i agree with this article, I prefer to wait till LMJ finishes up two more years (hopefully) before looking at his stats against the careers of backs from the past.
Call it avoiding jinxing him superstition.
Since education appears to be important to LMJ, I hope that he graduates in 2 years so we can watch 2 more years of highlights.
pretty sure he’s on pace to graduate after next year.
Life is about growth. People are not perfect when they're 21 years old. - Bill Walton
He's on pace to graduate in the winter trimester next year.
And I voted for Snoop, because I feel like he’s just slightly ahead of LMJ right now, but LMJ should eclipse him, maybe in the bowl game.
"Hawaii doesn't win many games in the United States." -Lee Corso
OT, but if you wanna see the roof of the Metrodome cave in due to snow
boy, you’re in luck!
"Hawaii doesn't win many games in the United States." -Lee Corso
Isn't that rediculous
When I heard that on the radio this morning I laughed so hard. It’s embarrassing, Vikings playing a home game in Detroit?
by gitterfidder on Dec 12, 2010 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
Not the first time.
People poke fun at Vikings franchise, talk about suffering though. I’m a lifelong Viking fan and if you want to review a tragic history I’ll be happy to go over it with you. Anyway it’s easy to fix that roof to bad it happened on game day. I’ll be glad when this season is over and the old gunslinger rides off into the sunset
by doomsdaymachine on Dec 13, 2010 2:26 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Hasn't this happened there before?
"What the hell was that?"
"Spaceball One, they've gone to plaid!"
Honestly I can't choose who was the best
I see the stats but I see the offense that CK has brought in and know that without said offense, LMJ would not have the stats that he has now. And, to some degree, depending on which RB you are thinking of, their stats would be way inflated by the current offensive scheme. So to some extent there is an apples to oranges comparison going on here that LMJ benefits from. Loville, for one, would have a higher ypc, no question, if he were in today;s offense.
But I am not saying that LMJ is a product of the scheme, like Texas Tech QB’s under Mike Leach were. He’s a quality back. And it helps that he’s stayed healthy, which fairly or not, helps him in comparison to the others listed here.
As for the poll results so far, I just chalk up LMJ’s popularity as being simply the latest great RB that we’ve had, just like almost all other similar polls.
So the best? Hmmm. I still say Jonathan Stewart. I want to see how LMJ translates to the pros, when he plays with the big boys before anointing him as the best ever-at least until Seastrunk sends us into conniptions of happiness.
My favorite to watch, prior to LMJ (did I spell that right?) was Reuben Droghns.
What a heart, balance, drive, and gear shifting. Injuries suck,hence the term ‘Suffering.’
I met a Duck starter and his girl friend at the dog park several times this fall. He is pretty shy so I didn’t tell him what I was feeling when I saw him on a Sunday afternoon, after he’d made several really good plays the previous day. I wanted to tell him “Thank you for what you did yesterday. I remember when I watched the Ducks take on Notre Dame right here in Autzen Stadium and hold them to 10 points late into the 4th period—the Ducks were leading, 13-10! And even then the Ducks held the mighty Fighting Irish to just a field goal and a tie at game’s end. We just didn’t have enough depth then and now we do. Thank you for working so hard. It means much to many of us that you persevere. Thank you.”
"If you can't copy 'em, don't imitate ''em."
YOGI BERRA
I’d like to thank all those guys for keeping it together for all those years. If they hadnt, we might be in the Big Sky conference now.. Because in that period there was a lot of sentiment for self-relegation. Some of it was internal.
That is what I give Brooks more credit for than anything.. He cared when so few others did.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
by benzduck on Dec 12, 2010 2:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Mo’ money Morris.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2LURAnK63s
"Hello, Endzone. Won't Catchem." - Brent Musberger
For having some bad football teams
We almost always had good running backs, at least going back to the mid 80s and Tony Cherry. I always felt Brooks did a pretty good job recruiting at the skill positions and in the defensive backfields. Pretty fair kickers too. It was the OL and the front 7 on defense where it seemed we consistently fell short.
Anyway, as far as RB’s go, Cherry, Loville, Burwell, McCullough—those were pretty good backs. Not to mentions guys like Jumper whose careers got derailed by injuries.
I could write a whole TWITS series on potentially great players who went down with injuries.
Herb Singleton was the one that hurt worst. A lot of people thought he was better than Fouts and an NFL prospect.
One thing that helped Brooks turn the corner was when he really started taking conditioning seriously in the early 90s, realizing that if a player is in great shape, he’s less likely to have to strain himself to make a play and risk injury. Your depth chart is deeper when your top players are still in play.
The 1994 team had its share of injuries. They didn’t impact the team as much as in 1993.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
by benzduck on Dec 12, 2010 3:38 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
ah 1993...
like when we had 4th string QB Chad Cota in at one point that season sheesh it was painful.
Season tickets $420.00
Tailgating food $250.00
Tailgating beer $89.00
Ducks in the Natty Priceless
by the_Duckinator on Dec 13, 2010 7:59 AM PST up reply actions
There's just something about James.
Sometime last year I realized he had won me over and I was a huge fan of his individually. In my time following the team, there have been a lot of players who were great in one way or another. Did great things, talented, seemed like great people. But he stands out to me.
At the end of last year, I really didn’t care about debating Masoli v. Canfield. I’d see that debate going on and the my reaction was “You know what? You beavers have a very good point. I respect your position, respect your intelligence and ability to reason, and I am quite willing to recognize and assede the potential correctness of your point of view.” James v. Quizz, it was “STFU PISTOLS @ DAWN.”
I’ve only really been following the team from when I started school, so about 8 years. I wish I was more familiar with a lot of these past players. I can’t really say best ever because I just don’t know before that (thought that didn’t stop me from voting for him here – voting out of ignorance is the birthright of every red-blooded American). As it is, 30 years from now, even if all his records get broken I’ll quite likely have James at the top of my list of favorite all-time Ducks.
Though, about those records… James could have the worst game of his (starting) career on the 10th, and he could still become the all-time leading rusher. As a sophomore. That’s just mind-boggling.
by omb on Dec 12, 2010 4:42 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
James is incredible and should finish his career here as the best statistical rusher we’ve ever had. The one question I have is: Have we seen him, as an individual, take over a game and put the team on his back? I know he’s had big games, but I don’t remember a game where he was the one we ran everything through, as the guy who was going to win it even if guys were dropping passes or the QB couldn’t find an open target.
I remember Stewart having those games, and playing HURT in that role. The game at Washington, or the Sun Bowl, where his play said “Damnit, I’m going to drag this entire team to victory kicking and screaming if I have to.” I still put him on top because he had a much less complete team than we do today, and his big days weren’t an exclamation point on a win, they were crucial to winning.
I think he's certainly been the "closer" in several games.
Taking the load and wearing down defenses in the second half of games against Stanford, USC, and Washington, to name a few. But as Chip has pushed for more balance and for getting the ball into the hands of more playmakers since he first started as OC, I don’t think you’ve seen the need for any one player to take on the major burden.
OTOH one can make the argument that he’s broken open several games with big plays. Tennessee and WSU jump immediately to mind.
"Beavers? We ain't got no Beavers. We don't need no Beavers! I don't have to show you any stinkin' Beavers!"
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Dec 12, 2010 9:16 PM PST up reply actions
but I don’t remember a game where he was the one we ran everything through
This was pretty much every game this season, especially the Stanford and USC games. When the team needed yards, they gave it to James, and he strapped them on his back and moved the team down the field.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
I agree James is important and had big games, but we also had big runs from Barner or DT and Huff became a factor late in the season as well. DT had 288 yards and 4 TD passes (plus 42 rushing yards) against USC and DT put up 238 passing and 117 rushing (4 total TD’s) against Stanford.
I’m not saying James isn’t great or that I think our offense could run the way it does without him. But every time he’s had a monster game it came side by side with someone else who was also on fire.
I heard some alleged experts on TV downgrading LMJ’s Heisman candidacy, saying his gaudy numbers were because of “the system” and not due to any particular talent. In essence, anybody could have done it.
Same arguments they used against the QBs at Texas Tech all those years that Leach was there.
Not sure one’s accurate and the other BS. Just sayin’.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
Tech QBs still had to make the throws
LMJ still had to make the moves.
just sayin’
"Hawaii doesn't win many games in the United States." -Lee Corso
Tech QB's all flamed out in the NFL
They weren’t nearly as good as QB’s with many fewer yards. They were products of their system.
Just sayin’
Lots of QBs flame out in the NFL
.. as we are painfully aware.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
All players are products of their systems.
Some teams run pro-set “sytems,” and therefore their QB’s are more likely to succeed in the NFL. But NFL success doesn’t inform our argument; in many ways it’s irrelevant. A good or great college player is a good or great college player, no more and no less. Jonathan Stewart, when not injured, is a very good NFL running back. He had his best season at UO playing in the Chip Kelly “system” and his entire college career within the spread “system.” Not the more fully realized vision of the system as it is today, but the Kelly Offense nonetheless.
"Beavers? We ain't got no Beavers. We don't need no Beavers! I don't have to show you any stinkin' Beavers!"
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Dec 12, 2010 10:47 PM PST up reply actions
Barner and Huff didn’t carry the offense for huge stretches. James did. Those players pretty much only saw the ball when defenses were cheating to try and stop James, or when James was very banged up in the Civil War game.
In the USC game, after USC took the lead following two poor drives, the Ducks simply fed the ball to James. He carried the ball 7 times for 38 yards, and got the majority of yards on the drive. When the offense needed a play, they went to James. It’s pretty much that simple.
Also, I think you’re looking at it the wrong way. James’ production allowed the rest of the offense to get into high gear. If James wasn’t on, chances were that Thomas wasn’t going to be on, and Barner and Huff weren’t going to be productive either. Our offense was only at it’s best when James was at his best, not the other way around.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
I agree with you, James IS key and he is what allows everyone else to open up and do their thing in space. My point was simply that, in comparing Stewart to James on a historic level, Stewart was successful both through injuries and through times when the defense keyed on him a lot more than they can afford to focus on James.
I still think James can be the best back in the history of U of O. I’m just not ready to say, as of today, he’s greater than Stewart, but he’s up there. But if he goes out and hangs 200 yards on Auburn next month I’ll chip in for the bronze statue of him with the caption “LaMichael James – Won the day.”
by JonathanPDX on Dec 12, 2010 10:56 PM PST up reply actions
Love LMJ
But, you know Barner is pretty good too.
by doomsdaymachine on Dec 13, 2010 2:34 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
For the Record - 89 and 90 we didn't suck or suffer!
Those were great times, a great team , and topped by beating #4 BYU at home and Bill being drafted by Dallas .
Yes I was there, no I’m not biased!
(much..)
Hoover: They confiscated everything, even the stuff we didn't steal!
Not sure what you're getting at.
I think a valid argument can be made that the return to bowl play in ‘89 signaled the end of The Suffering and the ’94 season was the emphatic “last nail in the coffin.” I mean, it wasn’t until the ‘00s that the Ducks were consistently capable of finishing more than a game over .500. The ’90’s weren’t all that impressive altogether unless looked at from the perspective of ‘72-’88. A Rose and a Cotton Bowl and a bunch of mediocrities other than that. But I still look at that horrible bus ride to the asshole of Looziana to cheer my Ducks in Arctic temperatures as nearly as satisfying as cheering them in the valiant effort in the RB following the magical ’94 season. In that context, one 1-win slip-up in ’91 looks more like a blip than a continuation or “return to form” not to be corrected until ’94.
I don’t necessarily reject the notion of the ’94 season as the end of The Suffering
"Beavers? We ain't got no Beavers. We don't need no Beavers! I don't have to show you any stinkin' Beavers!"
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Dec 12, 2010 11:04 PM PST up reply actions
What I was getting at was that the Musgrave Era didn’t mark the end of The Suffering.
The next three seasons, we were 16-18. In ‘91, when Danny O’Neil went down, we never recovered and wound up 3-8. And everybody around here thought “back to the drawing board..”.
The best they could do in ’92 was another Independence Bowl. This was not seen as significant progress. Then, another losing season.
We were just as mediocre in the 3 years after 89 and 90 as we were the five years before then. To me, those two years seemed like outliers, generated through the arm of one great QB.
The point of using 1994 — particularly game 8 of 1994 — as a dividing line is that since 1994, we’ve had exactly one losing season. In 17 tries. We had two in three years before 1994. That’s why I call it the end of The Suffering.
Your mileage may vary, and I have no problem with people who want to call ‘89 the end. I just don’t agree with them, and I think my argument is more sound
By the way: Did you make that second horrible bus ride to the asshole of Looziana in ’92?
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
ARGH!
I was a freshman in 1992. The 2nd Independence Bowl sucked so hard Hoover almost sponsored the game. I also made the Seattle Bowl in 2002. Let’s just say if the Ducks ever play Wake Forest again in a bowl game I will please JuJu by not attending.
Season tickets $420.00
Tailgating food $250.00
Tailgating beer $89.00
Ducks in the Natty Priceless
by the_Duckinator on Dec 13, 2010 8:02 AM PST up reply actions
Losing to Wake Forest was a pretty special kind of Suck
Considering it followed the 2001 season
"What the hell was that?"
"Spaceball One, they've gone to plaid!"
The same thing that happend in 2004.
Benz, all I’m saying is that on those two years this program felt a huge weight lifted and nothing but a success. So I know it doesn’t fit in with your headline but those two years back to back did mark a change from the previous two decades. Am with BigGreen on this and that 94 was the final affirmation, but 89 and 90 were both magical years and significant in that they showed this program would win big games (BYU would have been ranked #1 if they had won) and put together consecutive winning seasons.
Hoover: They confiscated everything, even the stuff we didn't steal!
2004 was no 1991.
I see your points, Damien. I just don’t agree with your conclusion.
After 1990, we finished last in the pac10 two of the next three seasons. That kind of result became inconcievable to most after 1994.
And it’s never happened again.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
by benzduck on Dec 13, 2010 7:57 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
One more thing re that first bowl game.
It was great that we could finally get to a point where we could buy our way into a bowl game. But consider that under the current rules of engagement (i.e., not have a losing record and not be on probation), several of the pre-1988 bowl teams would have been bowl-eligible — 1979, 1985, and 1987. There just weren’t enough bowls at the time to allow us to buy our way into one those years.
It’s hard for me to look at back-to-back, third-tier bowl games as the dividing line between suffering and not-suffering.
Until 1994, we had no reason to think that “being bowl-eligible” should be a minimum standard.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
Agree to disagree.
1994 doesn’t happen without 89-90 and the huge mental barrier it broke for the program. I assume you were there and you know what I’m talking about just from a psychological perspective. But to get back and say the bowls were crap, sure in light of the last two decades, but at the time damn right we were happy. As for 04 in terms of suffering I think that was worse because we were just 3 years out from almost taking a team to the NC.
So, the impact of back to back bowls from selling to recruits, fanbase, and funders meant a lot. Remember the Seniors playing in 94, were the same kids who signed on with after seeing a winning program in 89-90.
So I think we could go back and forth on this and I do respect what you have to say on the subject – just don’t agree that was a time of suffering but instead pride and joy.
& yes the 2nd Independence bowl sucked Donkey nads.
Hoover: They confiscated everything, even the stuff we didn't steal!
I agree with Damien.
But Benz already knows that, so I won’t say it out loud.
Welcome to Glendale, Arizona's Antique Capital
by Bill Musgrave on Dec 13, 2010 10:58 PM PST up reply actions
You could hear that?
Welcome to Glendale, Arizona's Antique Capital
by Bill Musgrave on Dec 14, 2010 5:47 PM PST up reply actions
The things they do with hearing aids nowadays.
You can hear a bowling pin drop.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
Musgrave
Was a flat out winner. Too bad he didn’t know when to slide. That busted shoulder led to a lot of suffering.
by doomsdaymachine on Dec 13, 2010 2:36 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Nah, getting my career started after taking my degree in '91.
But what I was getting at, and what you just wrote seems to confirm it, is that the Ducks were mediocre for several years AFTER the ‘94 season as well. Sure, they weren’t losing seasons in general, but hovering around .500 for another 5 years is pretty much the definition of mediocrity. So, again, were those seasons after Mus a “return to form?” Not so much. It took several more years before the Ducks could sustain streaks of 7 or 8 win regular seasons and until now that we’ve had consecutive 10-win regular seasons (in ’00-01) we needed the Holiday Bowl to reach 10).
Now, might I be biased and a little cheesed off that everyone considers ‘94 the Dawn of Duck Football, being that I was an undergrad during the Musgrave era? Possibly. And: Suck it. There are those who believe Oregon Football started in ’01 at the Holiday Bowl or ’02 at the Fiesta. There are a whole lot of fans around who didn’t know the Ducks even played football until a certain quarterback fooled the Wolverines, their 100K fans, and even the TV cameras with 2 Statue of Liberty plays in the Big House in ’07. Well, the more the merrier.
"Beavers? We ain't got no Beavers. We don't need no Beavers! I don't have to show you any stinkin' Beavers!"
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Dec 12, 2010 11:36 PM PST reply actions
There's mediocre, and there's Mediocre. The post-'94 mediocre >>>> pre-94.
1995: 9-3
1996: 6-5
1997: 7-5
1998: 8-4
1999: 9-3
2000: 10-2
Five bowls in six seasons. Didn’t see that during The Suffering. Improvement EVERY year from ‘96 on. Didn’t see that either.
My point WRT the ‘92 game was that there were a lot fewer Oregon folks willing to make that trek down to Sh’port again. We’d become a bit jaded. Resigned, maybe. There wasn’t much separating us from the years of finishing in the bottom of the conference.
We were tied with OAC and Stanford for last in the pac10 in 1993, and with OAC in 1991. That hasn’t happened since, not even in 2004.
Don’t get me wrong. ‘89 and ’90 were great. Happiest days as a fan in my life at the time. Sure as hell wouldn’t want to go back.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.
Fair enough.
One last word about the Bowl in the Asshole ‘92: I wonder how many folks who went in ’89 made the trip in ’92? Although the ’89 game was great, it was a miserable trip, a miserable city, and it was miserably cold. I, being young and stupid, brought only a light jacket. I couldn’t find a single piece of Duck garb to buy other than a bowl t-shirt, so I bought, of all things, an LSU sweater. Still have it too. But I’m not sure if I would have made the second trip if I were free to do so. Not because of the game, but because the first trip was so sub-par.
"Beavers? We ain't got no Beavers. We don't need no Beavers! I don't have to show you any stinkin' Beavers!"
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Dec 13, 2010 12:21 AM PST up reply actions
OT: Marquise Lee update
Someone very close to the Serra program said that Marquise Lee is leaning towards signing with the Ducks, he said about “70 percent”. Right after George Farmer committed to USC, everyone expected Lee to follow suit, but he’s getting a bit tired of being behind his shadow, so to speak and enjoys being on the offense. USC wants him to play safety while UO believes his better play making abilities are on offense. This will go down the wire.
Also, it seems where ever Lee goes, Gibson will follow him. The trio are the best of friends, but Farmer had to pull the trigger quick because he was tired of hearing from UO. Lee tried to get into his head to rethink about UO, but Farmer made his decision.
Interesting.
Farmer and Woods are going to be tough as a duo. Did Farmer ever really consider UO, or was that more being influenced to take a look by the other 2? And is there any further word about Blackmon that you’ve heard? I know Fontana is a good stretch from LA but I thought maybe there’s some chatter getting around.
"Beavers? We ain't got no Beavers. We don't need no Beavers! I don't have to show you any stinkin' Beavers!"
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Dec 13, 2010 12:29 AM PST up reply actions
Farmer has wanted to go to USC for a couple of years now and his best friend, Robert Woods, was hardly a factor when deciding. I think UO definitely was a school that ‘awed’ Farmer because of the facilities and resources, but wasn’t enough to overcome his enamored view of USC. The OV did, though, hit Lee harder. When USC offered Lee a scholarship, everyone believed he would commit to the Trojans within a week. That changed. Lee was wowed by UO and enjoyed Autzen and liked what Chip had to say.
Lee also loved the facilities and the array of uniforms the Ducks have. I believe he will sign with the ducks, IMHO.
Blackmon is also a prospect I think Oregon is leading by a lot, and by a lot I mean it’s no race. Sure he says nice things about USC and UCLA because they were the schools he was choosing from in the beginning, but, like Lee, he was also enamored of what UO had to offer. Chip also told him with his skills, he would play tremendous on offense. Blackmon wore UO gear at his last game on Saturday.
by Julio Nievas on Dec 13, 2010 1:43 AM PST up reply actions
Onterrio Smith
When you talk about best runningback ever, at the same time there has to be a memory that backs it up. For me LMJ does not have that yet Where was he last year in the Rose Bowl. I dont remember 1 thing about LMJ, honeslty. The only 2 things people remember about that game is Blount’s fumble, and Pryor tearing us to shreds..
Onterrio Smith did not put up video game # but he did not have Chip Kelley either. The 1 thing I remember is a that when we played Colorado in the Fiesta bowl, he had the best play I have ever seen by a Duck and if you know what play I am talking about you probably picked Onterrio too.
If LMJ shows up in the BCS Title Game and we win he gets my pick bar none.
You mean the play where he had the long run and looked like he was tackled, but he was just sitting on the Colorado player, and got up and ran in for a TD?
Because I’m pretty sure that was Maurice Morris.
I was at the Fiesta Bowl and don’t remember Onterrio doing much besides catching a TD pass. Maybe I was up getting a beer or something.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated vs SEC since 1977.

by 


























