People want quick and decisive--is it really the way to go?
As an Oregon fan and alum, I am embarrassed. I don't like hearing allegations that our star running back beat up his girlfriend. Or that our kicker got into a brawl. Or that our quarterback allegedly took some computers. Or that our linebacker got a DUI. I don't like that we have players who make bad decisions. I don't like the reputation that my school has amassed the last few weeks. We have a problem. It's a problem that needs to be dealt with. I expect, nay, DEMAND, that guilty parties will be dealt with harshly.
Most Duck fans I know feel the same way. We are not happy with these events. We don't want things to be this way. It needs to change.
We all recognize there is a problem. What we disagree upon is what to do about it. Chip Kelly has taken a wait until we get all the facts in approach. The media, most notably John Canzano, in what is the same self-righteous but logically flawed article that we've come to expect, is declaring the program out of control and demanding swift and decisive action.
Lets take a look at where swift and decisive action gets you.
Humans as a species love quick and decisive action. It seems to end a problem rather quickly. However, it can also get you into quite a bit of trouble. I think the most apt example here is the infamous Duke lacrosse case. If you remember, three members of the Duke lacrosse team were accused of raping an exotic dancer at the party. Adding a wrench into that whole affair, the accused players were white and the stripper was black.
The outrage was widespread and immediate. Media coverage was almost exclusively pro-prosecution, because questioning the integrity of a victim was unacceptable. We heard stories by the truckload about how these privileged, out of control athletes were guilty of taking advantage of others without the same advantages. Students protested. Faculty public supported the protesting students. Two of the accused had a prior record. The Duke administration took swift and decisive action. The rest of lacrosse season was canceled. 47 students who weren't accused of anything were punished. The coach was forced to resign. This was widely praised as proactive action at the time. There was only one problem:
The entire incident was a fabrication.
A good coach lost his job. The team lost its season. Three people lost their good name, were nationally declared guilty and chastised in the court of public opinion. All of this, and no crime was committed. Duke University and the City of Durham are still the defendant in legal proceedings by many players on that team.
But, hey, action was swift and decisive. Too bad it was horribly, horribly wrong.
Yes. Most of the time when these incidents happen, some kind of trouble has occurred. But not every time. Should we revoke LaMichael James' scholarship and throw him off the team? The crimes he is accused of look very bad. But none of us was there. Its possible that nothing happened. I don't think its likely. I think its likely that James has played his last game in an Oregon uniform. But who has the right to make that decision now? What if he didn't do it? Once you make the decision to remove him, there is no going back. If he indeed did nothing, and you punished him anyway, you have lost that player forever.
The Masoli thing is even less clear. I hear calls for people demanding that Masoli be suspended. He hasn't even been named a suspect. Or even a person of interest. So he's in a police report. I can get anyone's name I want in a police report. It doesn't mean anything. If he's eventually charged and found guilty, then punishment should be handed out. But how do you punish someone who is not even suspected, let alone charged, in a crime.
Then there are those saying that there is a double standard because non-star players like Embry, Holland, and Alonso were punished, while the star player walks. Embry's dismissal was reported by the pay-only sites in early January. I already knew Embry was off the team before the events happened. Holland has a long series of fuck-ups before the actions of this weekend. And DUI's are much simpler events to sort out than assaults and thefts. It's no surprise that information in the Alonso case was wrapped up pretty quickly. Its not a double standard. Embry and Holland were multiple-time fuck ups, and it was pretty obvious that Alonso was driving under the influence. This is contrasted with Masoli, who hasn't been charged with jack, and James, who maintains his innocence.
I have no doubts what Kelly says. If players mess up, they'll be held accountable. Lets just make sure they actually messed up first.
But people love swift and decisive. That's why they lauded the decision for Duke to cancel the lacrosse season.. Swift and decisive is the easy thing to do. But to protect people until you know what happened? That's the right thing to do.
After all, what if the falsely accused was you?
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Haste makes waste
If Kelly or the university act hastily in either the LMJ, Masoli, or even Alonso case, they could make a waste of their lives. Embry and Holland were not hasty decisions. Both of those guys were given multiple opportunities to right their own ship. They chose their path and Kelly only let them.
LMJ, Masoli and Alonso need to be dealt with individually and not let the continuous screw ups over shadow other effect their outcome.
I smell varmint poontang. The only kind of good varmint poontang is dead varmint poontang
Addicted to Quack
Not good journalism.
This type of approach does not make good journalism for guys like Canzano. He would like to simplify things down for his readers (Beaver fan). You know how they say the average American newspaper is written at about the 6th grade level? Well, Canzano resembles that. Why would you let things like logic and facts get in the way of a good story? At this point, he’s little more than a muckraker. What you’re saying is logical and makes sense, and it’s what most Duck fans have been believing. If they committed the crime, boot em. If we don’t know yet, let the process do the work.
Canzano is a blowhard.
If he was halfway intelligent he would write a column asking why Alfonso and Simms can be dismissed/suspended before the legal workings are complete whereas any punishment of LMJ can wait. But why ask a logical question when there is that convenient soap box of self righteousness always at hand?
~ How much for the little girl? Your women - how much for the women? The little girl your 2 daughters, sell them to me, SELL ME YOUR CHILDREN!~
by My Name is Bryce on Feb 22, 2010 3:15 PM PST reply actions
because DUI is pretty cut and dry
As for Simms, who knows there.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
One of the things that Kelly talked about in his press conference was making a decision once he had all the facts. I’m pretty sure he had the facts in all the non-LMJ cases. So, in terms of making decisions after the facts are in, I don’t see a contradiction.
The only thing I think could be effectively argued is that Simms punishment was too harsh, and he was mostly let go because he was a walk-on. And that was likely part of it. It’s simply not worth having a walk-on that becomes a liability in any way.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
Hear, hear
Except for the dig at Bush. I didn’t vote for that clown either time, but I come here expecting to avoid political diatribe.
I always enjoy a good jab at Bush wherever it comes from.
I'm going to miss those old overloards
by echris on Feb 22, 2010 3:54 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
My doctor said there was nothing he could do for me.
The stick was just too far in there for medical science to do any good.
by HoodRiverDuck on Feb 22, 2010 4:10 PM PST up reply actions
Whoa whoa whoa whaaaaaa
Canzano? Is that really you?
This off-season officially sucks for FIVE reasons and counting...
You declare me
CANZANO?
HOW DARE YOU SIR.
by HoodRiverDuck on Feb 22, 2010 4:28 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
But whenever a person talks about a stick too far up their ass to be removed, I immediately think Canzano.
This off-season officially sucks for FIVE reasons and counting...
by CaDuck on Feb 22, 2010 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It's one of the reasons that the US is arguably the greatest country on Earth.
One of the founding principles of our country: Innocent until proven guilty.
I think most, if not all, of us (including myself, absolutely) are probably guilty of assuming guilt at some point in time when it comes to these allegations. As Dave alluded to, it’s easy to come to a quick conclusion. Much easier than being patient, waiting for the facts to come out, and making a solid, educated conclusion. I have my suspicions as to who is guilty and who is innocent, but I can’t say for sure, and that’s why it’s the wrong process of thought.
Patience is a virtue.
Oregon Duck Football-Your Frontrunner for the 2010 Fulmer Cup.
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Feb 22, 2010 3:40 PM PST reply actions
Or that our kicker got into a brawl.
you know, out of all of these this is the one i dont necessarily mind. haha i like to see a kicker with some fight in him. If beard is our kick off guy next season I hope to see him gettin in and makin some hits on the return man..
just tryin to see the glass half full! (even though ours appears to be about 3/4 empty!)
We had a punter with a mean streak
Nothing brought more joy to me then seeing Kyle Basler decleat return men and then taunt them.
by Brian Floyd on Feb 22, 2010 3:41 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Jackson Rice is this way. If I remember right, he also played linebacker in high school and you can tell when he’s going down the field that he wants to pop someone
--Dominic, Addicted to Quack
Autzen Stadium is where great teams go to die." - J. Brady McCullough, The Michigan Daily.
He can sure as hell hit harder than Antonio Cromartie.
This off-season officially sucks for FIVE reasons and counting...
Sure now you say that with him on the trading block.
I smell varmint poontang. The only kind of good varmint poontang is dead varmint poontang
Addicted to Quack
And he probably doesn’t even have half the baby mamas!
The UO Sports Dude.com
by UOSportsDude on Feb 22, 2010 5:50 PM PST up reply actions
I think Basler was a backer as well
I love seeing kickers and punters head hunt. You don’t expect it and it is fun as hell to see
by Brian Floyd on Feb 22, 2010 4:30 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Tough kickers
Funny you mention kicker toughness, I knew a kicker from USC that was coached that if he was the last man to tackle the return man, to just fall down in front of him in hopes his cleats get hung up in the kickers jersey.
The team remaining
This whole ordeal is certainly tough on the players that work hard, study hard, and do the right things asked of them by the UofO. They are not deserving of the label that is being applied to others, but unfortunately will suffer anyway. Glad UW will be in Eugene this year so the team won’t need to listen to that taunting BS at Husky stadium.
I'm sure the Beavs fans will make up for it
if they show up, of course.
by HoodRiverDuck on Feb 22, 2010 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
Are you trying to imply in some way
that they fail to sell out the Burrito for big games or something?
Oregon Football: Keeping Oregon State out of the Rose Bowl since 2008
Nick Daschel has an incredibly reasonable take on this whole situation. Always nice to see a member of the media not overreacting, criticizing in a reasonable fashion, and giving praise where due.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
I am kinda surprised that Dave thinks James is going to be done. From the little that we know seems people are all ready making up their mind. From what I have read here as far as the charges go he was accused of a crime with little evidence of any wrong doing. Could this be a case of a pissed girlfriend who is out to get him? Could he have gotten physical with her? I guess my point is there just seems to be alot of people who have made up their mind with so little evidence of any wrong doing besides he said she said.
The whole point of Daves article was that the program shouldn't rush to punishment.
Dave can guess as to what is going to happen to LMJ, but he argues the whole time that we have to wait and see how the legal system acts before we punish anybody.
This off-season officially sucks for FIVE reasons and counting...
Yeah I get that
But what is the evidence that is making so many people forming these opinions without anything to back it?
I think mainly
we like to trust that the legal system doesn’t put an ankle bracelet and a 2-mile-radius restraining order on just anybody. That they have actual evidence of a real crime in order to take these kinds of measures.
by HoodRiverDuck on Feb 22, 2010 4:42 PM PST up reply actions
Ok, but that could go right back to the Duke case. They seemed to have enough evidence to go after those players and we all know how that turned out. I just like every one else have no idea what happend that night. Could he be treated differently because he is a high profile person? Should he have a ankle bracelet? I dont know, but with the little people know I just do not see how you can even make a judgment about this situation.
I know the law messes up frequently. And I am no lawyer
But there seems to be a difference between criminal charges, and criminal charges + ankle bracelet, etc.
If I recall correctly, and I probably don’t, the Duke case’s only legal action was the charge itself. The university, not the legal system, went overboard with the rest of the garbage.
Also, come on , it’s Duke! Nobody cares about those lilywhite secret handshake assholes!
by HoodRiverDuck on Feb 22, 2010 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with you there
I do think I remember the DA in Durham loosing his job or something over that whole thing.
To be fair
The ankle bracelet is in lieu of paying bail. Its a program to stop overcrowding with people waiting for their trials
by Brian Floyd on Feb 22, 2010 5:34 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
But there seems to be a difference between criminal charges, and criminal charges + ankle bracelet, etc.
From what I know, I don’t think that there is any difference in domestic violence cases. Someone linked to this primer on domestic violence on Moseley’s blog, and the rules are set. The judges, police, etc. MUST do certain things no matter what, no matter what the evidence, etc.
As cougfan said, the ankle bracelet is only because LMJ did not pay the bail.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
Well,
Things such as LMJ moving in with a life skills counselor, the restraining order and such. Nothing is set in stone by any means, but it unfortunately does not look too good right now.
This off-season officially sucks for FIVE reasons and counting...
Good news: (finally)
I’ll copy and post from the goDucks twitter feed, due to all the bad news below it.
Official NCAA attendance report out today, Ducks only Pac-10 team to average a sellout in 2009
link:
http://twitter.com/OregonFootball
Only losing THREE starters from the USC game. (Offense and Defense)
Ladies and Gentlemen your 2010-11 Oregon Ducks.
by QuackQuackAttack on Feb 22, 2010 4:46 PM PST reply actions
OT Baseball Ducks up 10-3 top of the 9th
against LMU
Swift and decisive?
Yeah, swift and decisive is why people voted for Obama in 2008, too. And look where that’s gotten us!
politics on a sports blog....bad
by Brian Floyd on Feb 22, 2010 5:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
This is an Oregon Ducks website, not a political discussion forum.
Oregon Duck Football-Your Frontrunner for the 2010 Fulmer Cup.
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Feb 22, 2010 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Then why is there a shot at Bush in the OP?
Tracy Porter's gonna score! TRACY PORTER'S GONNA SCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (HT Takimoto)
by AllSaintsDay on Feb 22, 2010 5:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Wasnt really a shot
Was an analogy about swift and decisive
by Brian Floyd on Feb 22, 2010 5:35 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Putting voting for Bush in parallel with the handling of the Duke lax scandal sure seems like an implied shot to me.
Tracy Porter's gonna score! TRACY PORTER'S GONNA SCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (HT Takimoto)
by AllSaintsDay on Feb 22, 2010 5:39 PM PST up reply actions
You’re right, it was a shot, not a discussion point. End of story.
I smell varmint poontang. The only kind of good varmint poontang is dead varmint poontang
Addicted to Quack
Besides, I already complained about this.
by HoodRiverDuck on Feb 22, 2010 5:54 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not complaining about the shot. I would rather not have politics on my sports blog, sure, I’m complaining that it’s in really, really goddamned poor taste to say that commenting on Bush is okay, but commenting on Obama is not.
Tracy Porter's gonna score! TRACY PORTER'S GONNA SCORE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (HT Takimoto)
by AllSaintsDay on Feb 22, 2010 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
I'm not saying that it was a great thing to say
But you’re on a forum largely populated with Oregonians and people who live on the West Coast…who are, as a large majority, liberal.
Oregon Duck Football-Your Frontrunner for the 2010 Fulmer Cup.
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Feb 22, 2010 7:55 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not complaining one way or the other (that would be hypocritical, given the nature of some of my comments in the past), but this point is entirely irrelevant.
There are Ducks fans visiting this site of all kinds of different views on politics, religion, etc. Just because something is said that MOST of them will agree with doesn’t make it okay.
Again, I’m not arguing against either of these specific comments, just that you can’t allow something for the sole reason that most people agree with it.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
yeah, so it wasn't the most appropriate thing I've done on here
Sorry about that.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
I edited it out
sorry if I offended anyone or started a war here.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
You didn't start a war, it's just that some people don't like mixing sports and politics.
Especially when they don’t agree with the political views that are being expressed.
Oregon Duck Football-Your Frontrunner for the 2010 Fulmer Cup.
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Feb 22, 2010 8:09 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, it was a shot
I hold a grudge. So be it.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, SBN's Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on Feb 22, 2010 6:21 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
rec for being appropriate in any thread
Oregon Football: Keeping Oregon State out of the Rose Bowl since 2008
Thank you!!
THANK YOU for taking this position! It needs to get out there more, I am sick of all the people calling for a knee jerk reaction to fix a “program in shambles”.
"Humans as a species love...."
???
Holy crap that makes me laugh. You could make an entire series of coffee table books and other crap to be sold at Halmark stores called “Humans as a specied love…”

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