Will Lyles, can I buy you a drink?
by JShufelt on Mar 4, 2011 12:26 PM PST
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Print[Ed: Bumped, because this is sure to spark some interesting conversation. -jtlight]
Since last night, I have digested the latest recruiting scandal regarding 'Street Agents', primarily concerning Oregon and a Will Lyles. I also digested some roast chicken and a bottle of Tricerahops.
I had doom and gloom race across my mind, but when I stood back, and let my emotional reaction dwindle, I asked myself, "Wait, what's wrong?"
Like any good overweight college sports blog message board contributor, I went to find my answers on the internet. A commenter on YouTube inspired me to fictitiously got a job as a surveyor for the hit late 70s game show, Family Feud.
I asked 100 college football fans to describe Will Lyles with something that begins with an "S"
And the survey says:
1. Shady
2. Sleazy
3. Street Agent
4. Seedy
5. Scumbag
6. Seamy
7. Sordid
8. Squalid
Based on these results, I came to the conclusion that Will Lyles is (or was) a drug dealer. So I went to edit Wikipedia, but apparently I lacked the proper credentials and I also was wrong.
So who is Will Lyles? What has he done to earn the popular answers of "Shady", "Sleazy" and even "Squalid" (And by judging Google's results is a word that apparently has only been associated with Hugh Hefner's Playboy Mansion prior to this fictitious survey).
In my life experience I've found that to find the true answers of something, you need to find the incentives for someone's actions. This is often idiomatically phrased as "Follow the money".
What does Will Lyles get out of this deal? As famed Swedish economic think tank "Abba" said several times, "Money Money Money". Now before you start giving me the Pulitzer Prize for investigation, let me say this isn't a bad thing by itself. I actually work at a job for several hours every weekday to get money.
But Will Lyles isn't the only part of this, is he? No, he's is actually a wedge between universities and recruits. A middleman - like a real estate agent or a shopping mall.
So what does a university get out of this deal? As whiny California-based progressive/alternative professor Dr. Edg once said, "Just a little bit, just a little bit more information." I'm sure he said more than that, but I stopped listening to him, and I suggest you do too. But according to sources, there are exactly 300,000 high school senior football players in America (A rather astonishingly round number), assuming the university uses Microsoft Excel 2003, they would need FIVE SPREADSHEETS. So universities try and connect with other resources to get pertinent information. This means there is a demand in the market.
And finally what do the recruits get?. As I said before, there are EXACTLY 300,000 high school senior football players in America. And there are 120 NCAA FBS programs, and all of them want the best players in the country. Most of them want the better players, many of them want the decent players, and some of them want the mediocre players, and the worst programs want the biggest pieces remaining. If you're in the top 1%, you're still in a pool of 3,000 players. If you're in the top 0.05%, you're in a pool of 150 players, and every school is going to send you weekly letters, they'll be calling your phone, they'll want to visit your home, and they'll want to send you to their school. You'll likely have your choices about as well in alignment as my car. Oh, and you know those 3 schools you're really liking, they want you, but if you don't keep playing well and don't do well at camps, they won't want you any more, so you need to keep working your butt off. Oh, and this probably is the most important decision of your life, no taksies backsies. But - what if you had an experienced person with no interest in a specific school that could give good advice, help with your training, and has a great track record of getting well-known players, who happen to now be in the NFL, to their university where they had great success - with no cost.
So, let's have a quick recap of the incentives:
1. WIll Lyles gets money.
2. A university gets access to first hand information on pertinent information from a rather large pool.
3. A recruit gets an experienced and well-connected advisor.
I'm told he's sleazy, but I'm actually having a hard time seeing why Will Lyles isn't an entrepreneurial genius.
Is it because he's getting money by "chumming up to players"? Every single NCAA coach in the country is at the very least, equally sleazy. And why is chumming up to players bad?
Is this situation with Will Lyles worse because of how much money Oregon gave him? Maybe Oregon sprung for the expanded cable with HBO, while others were satisfied with basic cable.
Is there a comprehensive list of every player Lyles has been tried to be associated with? If Lyles wants to provide a service that a school will pay $25,000 for, he'll probably want to be associated with as many players as he can be. So why should we shocked or disgusted when we read that Lyles at least attempted to talk to a player from Texas?
There is a lot of speculation, unknowns, rumors (Did you know Will Lyles is also Rupert Murdoch?), innuendo, outuendo, downuendo, and upuendo.
The NCAA is looking into it, and is apparently in Eugene today. I'm cool with that. What happens - happens. As an Oregon fan, until the full story is told, and there is something to be ashamed from, I won't be ashamed, or let myself be shamed.
Will Lyles apparently is/was associated with LaMicahel James too. I think if I ever see him, I may buy him a drink.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or the Addicted To Quack Moderators. FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable Oregon fans.
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The innuendo is just an A & B button away from entering the Konami Code, earning 30 lives.
I have yet to see any aspect of this so-called scandal that at any point has broken any rules whatsoever…What is ESPN/Yahoo and Clownzasshole freaking out about, that Oregon actually followed the rules? HOW DARE THEY!!!!
Seriously?
The insinuation is that we paid him to funnel kids to Oregon. This is a pretty huge violation of the rules.
"[Autzen Stadium's] steep concrete banks and closed ends turn a small but rabid crowd from WAC-sized cheering section into a horde of bees with megaphones capable of reaching 127 decibels of hatenoise." -Spencer Hall
by ProbablyMonty on Mar 4, 2011 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not saying we did that. I think it’s certainly possible, but I definitely don’t know for sure.
I’m just saying that the potential infraction should be relatively easy to see here.
"[Autzen Stadium's] steep concrete banks and closed ends turn a small but rabid crowd from WAC-sized cheering section into a horde of bees with megaphones capable of reaching 127 decibels of hatenoise." -Spencer Hall
by ProbablyMonty on Mar 4, 2011 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, I understand that’s what they’re trying to connect the dots with, but where is there a rules violation in any of this? I have yet to see it. If additional facts come out then maybe, but for now where is there actually a rules violation based on the facts that have been released?
Right now, they’re just trying to do conspiracy theory connect the dots…la la la.
http://peeweesplayhouse.ning.com/video/connect-the-dots
No, I agree. They haven’t found any evidence of anything improper yet, let alone proved such activities. I just think it’s a bit naive to stick our heads in the sand and pretend that we can’t understand what they’re sniffing around for, is all.
Total non-sequitur: Sorry your YouTube channel’s gone. I subscribe to just three channels on the Tubez, and yours is one of them.
"[Autzen Stadium's] steep concrete banks and closed ends turn a small but rabid crowd from WAC-sized cheering section into a horde of bees with megaphones capable of reaching 127 decibels of hatenoise." -Spencer Hall
by ProbablyMonty on Mar 4, 2011 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
It’s totally understandable why they’re sniffing around, and I’m glad that they are.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
Agreed. Hopefully they’ll find that all our ducks are in a row LOLOLOLOL GET IT?
"[Autzen Stadium's] steep concrete banks and closed ends turn a small but rabid crowd from WAC-sized cheering section into a horde of bees with megaphones capable of reaching 127 decibels of hatenoise." -Spencer Hall
by ProbablyMonty on Mar 4, 2011 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
How the hell did you not get
“sketchy” or “sborderline sillegal” in your poll results?
Matt Takimoto's Shake Weight
Addicted to Quack
Because Lyles doesn’t resemble a sketch. He looks more human than drawn.
As for sborderline sillegal – you weren’t a part of my survey.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-S-K-Y"
Well then I'm
questioning the validity of your survey.
Matt Takimoto's Shake Weight
Addicted to Quack
I ask myself
Did Auburn pay Cam with an Athletic Department check and list the transaction in their financial documents. Hell no. That tells me all I need to know.
by QuackWhore on Mar 4, 2011 1:19 PM PST via mobile reply actions
read this
post by a former oregon compliance officer.
http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindducksbeat/2011/03/ex-oregon_football_recruiting.html
Actually he's a former recruiting coordinator
not a compliance office. But that is a really good article.
Matt Takimoto's Shake Weight
Addicted to Quack
Picky Peter
THAT'S RIGHT, Kenny Wheaton you did. You cut back into GREATNESS.
by HoodRiverDuck on Mar 4, 2011 1:42 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Grumpy Gus
I don’t actually think you are grumpy, I just think that one doesn’t get used enough.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 4, 2011 7:32 PM PST up reply actions
Bill the Pill
That’s what I called my son when he was being a shitbird.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
Abusive Alonzo
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 4, 2011 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
Accusative Andy
THAT'S RIGHT, Kenny Wheaton you did. You cut back into GREATNESS.
by HoodRiverDuck on Mar 4, 2011 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
Hypocritical Harold
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 4, 2011 8:26 PM PST up reply actions
Slanderous Saul
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 4, 2011 8:31 PM PST up reply actions
Obtuse Oliver
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 4, 2011 8:48 PM PST up reply actions
Obfuscatory Orenthal.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 8:49 PM PST up reply actions
James Simpson.
The Maehlman always delivers.
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Mar 4, 2011 8:51 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Tiny Johnson?
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 8:53 PM PST up reply actions
Palmers are delicious.
The Maehlman always delivers.
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Mar 4, 2011 8:55 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Delicious Dish
Good times.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 8:57 PM PST up reply actions
You guys fucked this all up.
ALLITERATION OR IT DIDN’T HAPPEN
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 4, 2011 9:13 PM PST up reply actions
I'm TQA, and I'm here to fuck shit up.
The Maehlman always delivers.
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Mar 4, 2011 9:14 PM PST up reply actions
BANNED TO SILVER SCREEN AND ROLL!
you can mess them up.
Editor at BT Powerhouse, a Big Ten Basketball blog.
Author at Acme Packing Company, a Green Bay Packers blog
by OBrienSchofieldismyHero on Mar 7, 2011 5:44 PM PST up reply actions
Grouchy McGroucherson.
So sue me. So send me to the Arizona Home for the Rude.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
You live there already man.
And your wet nurse is typing your insults for you.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 4, 2011 10:47 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh yeah? At least I don't have to take out dentures to suckle.
What’s that like?
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
by benzduck on Mar 4, 2011 10:49 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll ask yo momma.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 4, 2011 10:50 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I'd ask YO momma
but her mouth’s full.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
by benzduck on Mar 4, 2011 11:15 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Flagged for last wording something that had already gone too far.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 5, 2011 7:34 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I rec'd every one of those last comments
because that is by far one of the greatest exchanges EVER on this site.
Matt Takimoto's Shake Weight
Addicted to Quack
by Matt Daddy on Mar 5, 2011 9:23 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I rec'd yours for good measure
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
by benzduck on Mar 5, 2011 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Is this going to be a thing?
I don’t think this should be a thing.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 5, 2011 11:07 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Flagged for having issues with his thing.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
Are you speaking of your own joke?
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 5, 2011 12:12 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Rather than break up the rest of the string, I will add via this tertiary message:
I really like the term shitbird.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 4, 2011 8:27 PM PST up reply actions
Feel free to use it.
Put the royalties on your tab.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
I first heard shitbird in basic training in 1997
and I have tried to drop that any chance I could since. Great term.
"I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."-Bill Hicks
by Linoleum Knife on Mar 7, 2011 8:27 AM PST up reply actions
Look at this JShufelt guy, I mean
THAT'S RIGHT, Kenny Wheaton you did. You cut back into GREATNESS.
by HoodRiverDuck on Mar 4, 2011 1:30 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Hataz gone hate
THAT'S RIGHT, Kenny Wheaton you did. You cut back into GREATNESS.
by HoodRiverDuck on Mar 4, 2011 1:59 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Via mobile
But I much prefer the Donald in swimsuit gif now that I’ve seen it.
THAT'S RIGHT, Kenny Wheaton you did. You cut back into GREATNESS.
by HoodRiverDuck on Mar 4, 2011 2:04 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
That's great.
It's spelled "A-R-R-O-G-A-N-T"
Addicted to Quack, home of Bill Musgrave, the best ever.
Someone needs to make it look like Puddles.
The Maehlman always delivers.
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Mar 4, 2011 8:10 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
But not impossible.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
by benzduck on Mar 6, 2011 11:57 PM PST up reply actions 11 recs
It's only been up for 16 minutes, but
HOW AM I THE FIRST TO REC THIS?
This man just won the internet forever.
Just sayin'
“Sleazy” and “entrepreneurial genius” have not, historically, been mutually exclusive concepts.
Again, not to condemn him, since I don’t know him from anybody else in Texas, but there are plenty of enterprising individuals who have made a lot of money by doing something that doesn’t feel quite right.
On the surface, it seems like it could be innocuous. Guy holds camps for football players. Reports results of camps to schools. Schools contact football players. But there is plenty of room in there for the kids to get taken advantage of, or pushed in a way that’s economically beneficial to the advisor.
I understand why the NCAA would want to look into the practice. I don’t think Oregon’s going to see much punishment, though, if any.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
"Sleazy" and "entrepreneurial genius" have not, historically, been mutually exclusive concepts.
True, but they also have absolutely no correlation with each other.
Enterprise is no more “sleazy” than any other activity that involves incentives.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-S-K-Y"
Also, if you want to more regarding incentives, start looking who has a lot to lose because of someone like Lyles.
Why did Oregon start getting these packages to begin with? Texas. Lyles’ region? Texas. Which school recruits almost entirely from Texas? Texas. Who has the motivation to shine light to the press regarding this? I think I’m seeing a pattern.
Of course, that is pure speculation on my part.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-S-K-Y"
They don’t necessarily have correlation with each other. But there’s a reason the NCAA is concerned about this, and that’s because there is plenty of opportunity to abuse the service. These are kids. The reason they want an advisor is because they have no idea what they’re doing. It’s the same reason why I hate taking my car in to get repairs – when they call me and tell me my head gasket is cracked, how the hell do I know they’re telling the truth?
Like most things they do, I’m sure the NCAA will screw this up somehow. But I think the fact that they’re looking into these relationships is a good thing. None of this is meant to hang Lyles – he may be an upstanding fellow and his relationship with both Oregon and the recruits he’s talked to may be completely on the level. However, it would be naive to think that just because he’s addressing a legitimate need in the college football recruiting process that he’s on the level. There’s opportunity there to take advantage of people, and we’ve seen stories about it happening in the past. We’ve also seen plenty of schools using improper payments to get kids to play football for them.
It’s those stories, which tend to be dramatic and sensationalized by whatever media is reporting them, that we jump to negative conclusions about these kinds of services. We shouldn’t jump to those conclusions. I think, though, that if there’s any way for the NCAA to get a better handle on this, it should be pursued.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
The NCAA should be concerned with stuff like this. This is the other thing with incentives, people will always find away to cheat the system. And these scouting/recruiting services could be open for some potential exploitation.
That brings up a different thing though. By its very nature, cheating is a secretive activity. It doesn’t want to be discovered and because if that, it is very difficult to to find the truth. If the university didn’t come out and say “Yeah. We paid him.We checked about it ahead of time. And?”, I would actually be more worried.
This doesn’t reek of any real scandal. This doesn’t reek of any cheating to me.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-S-K-Y"
Seems to me we're "playing by the rules as we know them."
Trouble is, there are a lot of cases where “playing by the rules” has morphed into “gaming the system” and working the rules.
The whole mortgage financing fiasco of the last 10 years comes to mind.
I think that ultimately our transparency will keep Oregon from getting dinged too badly in this case, but that doesn’t mean I have to like the way this smells.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
So do I. But I can also understand how a third party observer might look at the situation with a firmly raised eyebrow.
Especially someone who’s just been waiting for Oregon to fuck something up.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
v
THAT'S RIGHT, Kenny Wheaton you did. You cut back into GREATNESS.
by HoodRiverDuck on Mar 4, 2011 8:13 PM PST up reply actions
Modus operandi
I’m enjoying all the different angles on this story. Good piece Joe.
I guess my perspective is to suggest that this guy Lyles is probably very good at what he does. Quality information warrants top dollar. If I want to publish a catalog of snow/skate stuff next month and need prospects for a mailing list, I can contact any number of companies who specialize in such stuff. If I say, “I want 500,000 dudes between 18 and 55”, with no other criteria, that might cost me $10 per 1,000 names. If instead I say, "I want 50,000 dudes between 18 and 24, who have at least two credit cards, are single, own a home, live within 100 miles of a mountain resort and have a proven behavior of buying snowboarding gear or apparel at least twice a year for 3 or more years, well those names are going to cost me about $200 per 1,000. Highly qualified info costs more.
The most embarrassing thing about his story may be when some other school shows an invoice for exactly the same service but only paid $15K for it. Beyond that, Oregon probably did what they always do – spent top dollar for a top-shelf quality product.
Cal Bears football... Doing less with more since 2002.
Do you think there’s any possibility that what Oregon thought it was purchasing, and what Lyles thought he was delivering, might not have been in sync? That’s an idea that’s been gnawing at me.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
Well, I’d like to believe there was due diligence done regarding the nature of Lyles’ info, contact info, video footage and camp results, and that the Ducks researched what a fair value is/was for that content. I also would like to believe that Oregon staff in contact with Lyles were crystal clear about what it was they were purchasing with respect to NCAA rules and such.
Of course that sounds exactly like me have a lot of blind faith that Oregon staff did the right thing at every step. Time will tell.
Cal Bears football... Doing less with more since 2002.
Yeah, them are some emerald-colored glasses perched on your nose there…
It’s not like this athletic department hasn’t fucked up before. I keep telling myself that.
Heard an ex-agent make an interesting point this afternoon. The compliance departments at NCAA member schools are all set up by the universities, and the employees therein are paid by the school. This could be perceived as a built-in conflict of interest.
Maybe the solution is for the schools to work with the NCAA to come up with a system that puts the compliance officers in more of a “public editor” style position, employed by the NCAA and not the uni. They might be less likely to accidentally overlook a transaction that doesn’t look kosher. No, I don’t know exactly how it would work, or if it would be legal.
Having said that, I’ve learned enough about how Oregon handles compliance issues to think they may be on the right track in figuring all this shit out. Example: The pseudo-brouhaha last year with LMJ’s borrowed Range Rover. The department seemed to be right on top of it, pointing out that the car was appropriately registered with the office, etc. I really have a hard time believing that a player at Oregon could show up with a car delivered through a booster and get away with it. Blind faith? Maybe.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
The compliance departments at NCAA member schools are all set up by the universities, and the employees therein are paid by the school. This could be perceived as a built-in conflict of interest.
I guess some could have that perception, but they probably would think a corporation’s HR or a construction company’s safety department is a conflict of interest too. It is generally in the best interest of the university to ensure they comply with the NCAA’s rules and regulations.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-S-K-Y"
Personally?
I think the school is playing the “by the letter of the law” game. In the end, we’ll get a slap on the wrist and a “don’t do it again,” but there won’t be any proof of actual wrongdoing.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not even sure we’ll get the “don’t do it again” if it turns out there was zero activity that was against the rules or that crossed even unspoken ethical standards. That said, I wouldn’t at all be surprised to see continue NCAA attempts at regulating the contact between institutions and private companies who are working directly with student athletes.
Cal Bears football... Doing less with more since 2002.
I just don’t see anything happening to Oregon. If we’ve met the Bylaw I linked in the other thread, how can they even give us a slap on the wrist? Granted, I’m assuming that our payments met the bylaws. But that seems the likely scenario at this point.
If the NCAA changes the rules, then we’ll be the poster case, because we’re trying to break into the college football elite, but we’ll be in a pretty large group. But that rule change shouldn’t lead to any negative effects on Oregon, at least in terms of sanctions.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
I doubt they can do it ex post facto.
They can’t change the rules, then penalize us for breaking the rules prior to the change.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 10:56 PM PST up reply actions
The part that worries me is the publicly advertised pricing. From what I’ve heard, his $25k package just went up on the website within the last day. That seems awfully coincidental.
Defending maligned chants since 2009
Yes it did
which is about the stupidest f’ing thing he could have done. Like some dick on the internet isn’t gonna notice, or even better, know how to use google cache.
I’m not trying to make excuses for the website because this does look bad. But I have quite a bit of experience with websites getting all kinds of messed up when updated.
Imagine the calls saying “You don’t offer anything on your website that costs $25K, clearly you’re a cheater and all us haters be hatin’!” So he calls the webmaster, who forgot to select one box when doing the last update and left that package off the list. The guy promptly does a full upload to correct it, prompting the SEC to implode.
I’m not saying it went down this way, but there are possibilities beyond “They made up a package real quick to cover their asses.” Because honestly, if this is all really bad, documented in our records, and the agent’s best idea to cover it up is to quickly post a phony package, well, then they’re all morons.
It really never made sense in the first place that the only service advertised on a site for a guy whose entire business model was based on high school recruiting to not include his entire price list — if ANY prices were included. Putting that JC package on there all by itself was just stupid. “Click here to request a consultation and pricing” would have been sufficient.
I think it is now fairly well established that Lyles didn’t attend business school.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
It could have
I’m not saying it’s anything actually bad, I’m just saying that sounds to me like the dumbest thing they could have done was throw it up a day after the news broke. They’d be better off leaving it off the site and showing some code to anybody who asked.
How can you have that big fucking purple 'W' as an avatar? Jees man, get real.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
I don’t think that change was made to save anyone’s ass. I think that change was made because Lyles has a LOT to gain from all this publicity if the NCAA doesn’t make any changes as a result of all this.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-S-K-Y"
Is everyone forgetting the by now long track record that exists of everything Oregon tries that is innovative is shutdown? The sports marketing and innovation by the UO is ahead of everyone else consistently, and when people complain then the NCAA makes rules to outlaw it. This to me seems like one more example of the NCAA stepping in when Oregon once again finds a way to get a leg up in recruiting…
Private jets used to fly in recruits
puzzles and comicbooks w/ the player’s persona
Private vehicles with official school logos (the Duck humvee)
website with campus tours of facilities
etc.
Anything Oregon tries, people bitch about, other schools are still bitter that a place like Oregon would dare have the audacity to try to compete with the traditional powers.
Isn’t it ironic that Oregon managed to make it to the NC game without the benefit of any players who might have been influenced by any of the above items? I’m pretty sure they put the kibosh on all of those more than five years back.
We didn’t need them.
Having said that, I fully expect the NCAA to come down on Oregon for their non-traditional use of uniforms.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
Building blocks.
Weird building blocks tending toward the profesionalization of college sports, but attention getting building blocks nonetheless.
Sort of like purchasing a bowl game in, oh, er, um 1989 or so.
Anyway, I can’t take this shit, this is not the right time for my team to be under investigation, I have enough other shit going down.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 4, 2011 8:38 PM PST up reply actions
I'm hoping that March 2012 has us in the headlines for hoops.
Because this whole being-in-the-news-for-football-two-months-after-the-season’s-over is getting old fast.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
I'm bitter that one very rich man gets to spend every dime he has
on your program. I’m not bitter that you try to compete.
I think skirting the rules is kind of lame for anyone, especially when it’s something you’ve developed a reputatuon for. But you’re completely off base on opposing fan bitterness.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 8:37 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Do rich people in general make you bitter?
Or is it that this one happens to be doling out the largess on a team you aren’t exactly predisposed to look upon favorably?
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
A) Not every dime he has. He's got plenty more.
B) The “donations” to Duck athletics might be the envy of the Pac, but pales in comparison to other football and basketball schools around the country.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
He's jealous of our Single Point of Success.
If we had, say, 10 rich dudes ponying up 1/10 of PK’s donations each year, it wouldn’t be as easy, or fun, to sit up there and waggle a finger.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
As a single donor, I'm not sure it does
And a lot of donors around the country place money in academics at a greater rate than knight.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 8:43 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Uncle Phil is a businessman who runs a shoe company.
It’s not hard to figure out on which side his bread is buttered, so to speak.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 8:45 PM PST up reply actions
To clarify...
I wish there were ways to premote parity in CFB as I think it will be the downfall of it.
I’m bitter that you have a HUGE donor and we do not.
I’m also for dumbing down the rules and leaving them up more to interperatation so that teams that skirt them in bad faith (including my own) are able to be punished.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 8:42 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Wait. What?
You think it would be easier to punish an institution if the rules were vague and ill-defined?
Seriously?
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
Yes, because it's impossible to cover them all
As demonstrated by the first post of this subthread.
I think giving the higher ups a bigger stick could curb a lot of problems before they ever become problems.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 8:48 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
It was impossible in the PAST to cover them all.
That’s why they’ve had to create a 3,000 page regulatory document.
Back in the day, the rules were “vague and undefined”, and the “traditional power” schools got away with murder.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
Now "creative" schools are getting away with manslaughter
If the NCAA could punish based on intent, private planes and nights at the titty bar on OV’s might be a thing of the past.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 9:14 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Titty bar?
Mike Price!
The Maehlman always delivers.
by TennesseeQuackAttack8 on Mar 4, 2011 9:17 PM PST up reply actions
Do you have any idea how hard it is to prove "intent"?
I didn’t think so.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
Because otherwise
punishments will look extremely subjective and the appearance of favoritism will be prevalent. I mean that exists already even with a bloated rule book. It would be 1000x worse if you had your way.
Matt Takimoto's Shake Weight
Addicted to Quack
Exactly.
Why the hell would all those recruits go to freaking Nebraska or Alabama back in the day?
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 9:24 PM PST up reply actions
This "you got us this time" mindset
Accounts for quite a large % of what’s wrong with college sports.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 8:50 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I'm not sure what you're referring to.
UO isn’t playing some sort of game. There’s no attempt to actually cheat. Many of the instances mentioned in this and on other threads are those of the Ducks trying to innovate, rather than break rules.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 8:52 PM PST up reply actions
One mans innovation
Is another mans rule skirting. I see your point, but you really can’t get how I might see it another?
If I change a patented product just enough to not break the law and reap the benefits, is that still just innovating?
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 8:56 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I'm referring to actual innovation.
I will agree that this particular instance has a bit of the sleaze factor, but the cartoon thing, for instance, was an actual attempt to be creative IMO.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 8:58 PM PST up reply actions
You telling me UW never had a booster offer use of a private plane to ferry a prospect?
Man, you’re naive.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
No I'm not
But you guys are bragging about the rep you have for getting things banned. It bothers me as a person who does things the right way.
If Sark gets caught (because I’m sure he’s not guilt free) then I’ll criticize him just the same.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 9:09 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Bragging?
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 9:20 PM PST up reply actions
About innovation in recruiting
3 of the 4 you listed are pretty clearly not that innovative (actually you get the website from me as well).
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 9:41 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
But...bragging?
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah. Bragging.
The sports marketing and innovation by the UO is ahead of everyone else consistently
How is that bragging?
Fact? Maybe. Opinion? Certainly. Bragging? Nah.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 5, 2011 12:09 AM PST up reply actions
brag (brg)
v. bragged, brag·ging, brags
v.intr. To talk boastfully. See Synonyms at boast.
v.tr. To assert boastfully.
Boasting?
Who’s boasting?
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 5, 2011 12:24 AM PST up reply actions
You...
The sports marketing and innovation by the UO is ahead of everyone else consistently
1.
to speak with exaggeration and excessive pride, especially about oneself.
2.
to speak with pride (often followed by of ): He boasted of his family’s wealth.
–verb (used with object)
3.
to speak of with excessive pride or vanity: He boasts himself a genius.
4.
to be proud in the possession of: The town boasts a new school.
That statement qualifies under definitions #2 and #4.
Statement of fact,
completely within the context of the conversations. Ergo, not boasting.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 5, 2011 1:15 AM PST up reply actions
The irony of a UW fan criticizing us for bragging is too funny.
Matt Takimoto's Shake Weight
Addicted to Quack
Let's not forget all the things that haven't been banned.
Giant bill boards on Times Square.
Crazy Uniforms.
Hip Advertising
Oregon Gridiron
etc.
These are the things that got Oregon where they are today, constantly pushing the bubble, re-branding itself into an entity that wasn’t;t there before. Oregon used to be just another smallish State U. nothing special, no real sports tradition beside track. The Marketing and re-branding that has occurred in the last 10-15 years has completely changed the game.
That’s not to mention the facilities, which were scoffed at as extravagant by the powers of the day in the 90’s. Without the marketing campaign, I think all the facilities in the world may
not have helped the smallish State U. get to where it is today.
So yeah let’s brag, we have been winning, and Oregon athletics are at an all time high, BECAUSE they think outside of the box. Oregon is NOT tOSU, USC, UW (Insert name of huge traditionalist U. in their Ivory towers here.).
I think this is where the rub is for the powers that be, we are not traditional we do it different and thumb our noses at they who have “tradition” those who are used to bullying about and having their way. Screw you big traditional U.. Stop whining, the times are changing, this is how it is done now. Change or die.
"What the hell was that?"
"Spaceball One, they've gone to plaid!"
We're just fine with our tradition.
Sincerely,
UW (7-6)
Notre Dame (8-5)
Michigan (7-6)
UCLA (4-8)
Miami (7-6)
P.S. Yes, I am bragging.
Matt Takimoto's Shake Weight
Addicted to Quack
by Matt Daddy on Mar 5, 2011 10:16 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
This is what I am saying
Those guys hang their hat on their “tradition.” Well, they are losing the battle, they brought cavalry to a tank war.
Brag away, brag all day long while we can.
"What the hell was that?"
"Spaceball One, they've gone to plaid!"
dude, stupid phone
But private planes and hummer chaufers are creative too right? This is stuff that if anyone did I would have a problem with. This isn’t duck hate, this is a guy who works hard and honestly, hating the flawed system that encourages this shady stuff.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 9:06 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Why is changing a product enough, yet still remaining within the legal boundaries suddenly “morally gray”.
I drive AT the posted speed limit, so now my morality is being questioned.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-S-K-Y"
Because that's a black and white rule
if you’re driving 20+ over until you see a cop, so they have to put more cops on the road, that’s morally gray.
There are plenty of schools with many donors who cheat regularly.
I’m not familiar with the state of Cal athletics from the donor side of thing, but certainly you can’t be lacking for alumni with big bank accounts. I suppose it speaks to your previous post about academic vs. athletic donations.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 8:47 PM PST up reply actions
I wish there were ways to premote parity in CFB as I think it will be the downfall of it.
Umm, why are you a fan of CFB then? This will NEVER happen. College football has never been, and never will be, about parity.
This isn’t a bad thing, it’s not really a good thing. It’s just the way college football is. If you want parity, go watch the NFL.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
Because i like the history and passion involved
I like that the school can’t move to OKC. I like the tangible game differences as well. There is a real connection with schools that is more than regional, or because your brother likes em’. There are no alumni viewing parties in the NFL:
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 9:49 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Understandable. CFB is a great sport for a number of reasons. I was being a little argumentative with my opening comment.
My point is just that college football will never have parity. It’s not designed to have parity. It’s what sets it apart from other leagues, and I don’t view that as a bad thing.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
The constant four-year full turnover of a CFB squad is what makes it fun.
It’s also what drives recruiting, for good and for ill.
I don’t think the NCAA does a perfect job of policing it by any means, but I’m not sure how to go about “fixing it”.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
Seems a bit silly for a fanbase with a vastly larger metropolitan fanbase, a wealthier metropolitan fanbase, more alumni, and wealthier alumni.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 4, 2011 8:46 PM PST up reply actions
I think it's a given that the Cal alumni base is more interested in academic donations.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 8:48 PM PST up reply actions
I'm all about capping athletic donations
To premote parity for land grant schools and smaller metro campuses.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 8:49 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
You know what that would do?
Rather than leveling the playing field, it would mean the traditional schools would actually strengthen their hold on the game.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 8:51 PM PST up reply actions
I tend to disagree
but since I’m typing on a 4" screen and it’s long winded, I’ll give it to you.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 9:00 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Here's why:
The traditional schools are already loaded with rabid fan bases and have ginormous stadiums, which give them a revenue advantage to begin with. They wouldn’t have to market themselves to foster familiarity amongst recruits to the extent the other schools would, allowing them to spend their allowed dollars elsewhere. And that’s just the beginning. Putting an official cap on donations wouldn’t slow down SEC spending a damn bit.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 9:22 PM PST up reply actions
I can get that
But with the money not being capped it allows for teams with lots coming in to widen the gap.
And it goes along with my NCAA overhaul thing, if they could punish based on intent to skirt rules, it could stop most of that dirty money.
None of this will hapen until they collapse fhe NCAA though. They need to blow up the system and start over the right way.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 9:27 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
That's even more problematic.
You know what replaces the NCAA? The BCS. There’s too much money involved for them to actually self-police to the extent you are talking about.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 9:29 PM PST up reply actions
I know, it's all a pipe dream
Doesn’t stop me from hating it. I was raised with “cheaters never prosper” and everybody gets a trophy attitudes. Now I’m in my mid 20’s and jaded that I’m behind the curve because I bought into that bullshit.
Money does buy happiness, cheaters do prosper and your trophy is a plastic piece of shit. Meanwhile the gold one the cheater got is in a pawn shop and he’s got a $5k head start on his street agent company.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 9:38 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I hate the "everybody gets a trophy" attitude almost as much.
No, everyone is NOT a winner, and everyone is NOT all that special.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 9:40 PM PST up reply actions
I used to hate sports. Then I learned you could buy trophies. Now I'm good at everything.
/demitrimartin’d
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
by benzduck on Mar 4, 2011 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
So, you are critical of UW on UW sites, for their ties to boosters?
Anyway, if that’s a real opinion and you are equally critical of money given to your own program, and quick to state that elsewhere, I agree with you on principal.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 4, 2011 9:12 PM PST up reply actions
I would be
If one stepped forwad and made a headline worthy of a post. If gates or allen decided to front UW $400M for the stadium, I’d be thrilled the relic was getting fixed, but I would have mixed feelings about taking money like that. More so if it meant they had the insider privilages of PK.
With the current renovation and the lack of commitment from the legislature to pony up even ADA upgrade money, their hands are tied. Even now I’m not a big fan of soliciting boosters, but that’s the only way iit doesn’t become a liability.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 9:23 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
You don't need big boosters to run a shady program my friend.
UW has had their own problems through the years, no?
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
Definately have
I liken it to the jack in the box ecoli outbreak in the 90’s. They screwed up so bad that they had to clean up because they were under the microscope. I’m sure it’s back to the old days to an extent though.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 9:31 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
And...
…don’t you consider it likely that UW has written checks to some of the “recruiting services” or “street agents?” I think there are an awful lot of people in the “piling on” crowd who haven’t considered the likelihood that their teams have done exactly that.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 9:39 PM PST up reply actions
I'm sure they have
I just hope they haven’t steered a recruit to UW, or that they didn’t overpay for it. I hope its on the straight and narrow.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 9:51 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
That's both missing the point and making huge assumptions.
You’re assuming, it appears, that we A) overpaid and B) had the recruit “steered” to our school. Also, if your school paid for this type of service, they are dealing in the same gray area we are.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 10:59 PM PST up reply actions
It's not a gray area
if the owner of the company that got paid isn’t advising kids that end up at UW.
Hence "gray area."
How do you know they aren’t?
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 5, 2011 12:10 AM PST up reply actions
I’d much rather have a private booster use their money on an athletic endeavor than waste state money to get that done.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
by jtlight on Mar 4, 2011 9:40 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Seconded.
We’ve never been hesitant to admit how lucky we are here on ATQ.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
Thirded.
I’ve been around long enough to remember the pre-Phil days, with the paycheck games, the pathetic begging of the populace to put a one-cent-per-sixpack tax on beer that went down something like 3-1, the toilets that overflowed in the locker rooms at Autzen, etc.
I’m like a really old foster kid who all of a sudden is adopted by Daddy Warbucks.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
Fair enough
I don’t mind because it’s a state entity and not one that’s owned by anyone, except the people.
There is a PK joke to be made somewhere.
by B Money on Mar 4, 2011 9:53 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
I understand the skepticism of PK, but I’m just as skeptical of the state, and it’s ownership by “the people.”
Also, while I understand why people are skeptical of PK, but I think the benefits that he receives are vastly overblown. It’s a pretty one-sided relationship. Oregon gets everything. PK gets very little, that’s tangible. It seems as altruistic as you can get. Well, for a college sports program that professional in everything but name (and that’s not just the case for Oregon, but every serious college sports program around).
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
I think it would be fair to say that Knight and Nike get an upperhand from Oregon players who want to be sponsored or spokespeople when they go professional.
If LaMichael goes pro and is ready to make some advertising dollars, you’d be he wouldn’t go to Adidas or Reebok for it. Granted, it’s a relatively fruit to reap for Knight’s dollars he pours into Oregon, but it’s not completely one-sided if you think of it as an investment.
He was only five-foot-three but girls could not resist his stare... Chip Kelly never got called an asshole.
That’s peanuts compared to what Knight has given the University.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
How could you have “mixed feelings” after what you previously said?
Do you want capped spending or not?
Do you want boosters out of sports or not?
Shouldn’t you be pissed if anyone donated $400K to your program based on the influence you’ve decried above?
Shouldn’t you be happy with the stadium as is if you know it requires money to upgrade it, and money cheapens the whole thing?
How would allocating tax dollars to a stadium be any different than allocating dollars from someone else? A system dominated by rich states over poor?
Just feels a little lesson teaching and not based on principle.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 4, 2011 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
Ok
- I’d have mixed feelings if one donor stepped up publicly to fund a major project like that. I don’t want UW’s AD to have somebody with that much pull who’s not an official of the school. But would I be pissed off if Husky Stadium got an upgrade? Hell no.
- Yes, I’d like spending capped.
- $400k, I don’t know. If that was a typo and you meant $400M, then yes, I’d be pretty upset. Less so if they didn’t want anything to do with the program. It’s the insider type access and special treatment that would make me more upset.
- Not if it’s not up to code. I’d be thrilled if the state set aside the tourist tax money that built Qwest and Safeco to give the necessary ADA upgrades to bring the building up to code…even if it meant no football op building and suites.
- Allocating tax dollars to do minimum code upgrades to an 80 year old public structure doesn’t bother me. Asking alums to handle that burden on a multi-purpose public building does.
Certainly entitled to your feelings, I just find them hypocritical if they are mixed.
You’re stating pretty point blank that you’d feel bad about receiving a large donation but would enjoy it’s benefits, all the while taking jabs at PK and anyone here who supports him doing the same thing.
For the record, I am no fan of PK and hate “innovative marketing strategies” and the idea that, in college sports, or anything else, you have to “toe the line of ethics” to get ahead. Code upgrades, spending limits, lack of booster influence, lack of individual booster influence, I’m in total agreement on. Public funding for code upgrades, sure. Large scale public funding to make sports facilities bigger and better, no, only a certain percentage of the population benefits from them, and local economic benefits are only reported favorable when studied by paid economic consultants.
Anyway, to each his own.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 5, 2011 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
Correct me if I'm mistaken..
but neither Gates nor Allen are UW alums.
Locals, yes.
Now, Ted Bundy, he was an alum.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
by benzduck on Mar 4, 2011 10:41 PM PST up reply actions 4 recs
Allen actually attended WSU
and Gates Jr. Harvard. Just an example of power brokers in the area who have deep pockets.
Deep pocketed, yes
but perhaps not as likely to dump megabucks on UW.
I wonder how much Allen has dumped into the Seahawks and Blazers over the last 20 years. I’m willing to bet it’s more than Phil has on Oregon. And I submit Phil’s money has gone farther, in terms of ROI.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
Allen had donated a cubic butt ton of money to UW and WSU
it’s just been to the academic side. I’m pretty sure both of their parents worked for UW, I should research that before I spout off though.
The only Athletics related donation he made was the field turf in HS back when Qwest was being built. Basically a gift so the Hawks could play home games there.
Gates donated a lot of money for technology upgrades
When I was at Evergreen they got several million dollars from a Bill Gates endowment to upgrade a lot of the facilities there. I know UW and other Universities in Washington accessed the same funds. Gates is way more into academic support than sports.
"What the hell was that?"
"Spaceball One, they've gone to plaid!"
Both are with their philanthropy
Allen is a sports fan as well, but he’s got his hands dipped in pro sports and I’m not sure what the rules are in regards to AD donations from a (multi-franchise) pro sports owner.
No, a ton is a ton
A shit ton however, is much stickier, and stinkier.
"What the hell was that?"
"Spaceball One, they've gone to plaid!"
So, depending on which coke you're talking about
I either need to have a word with Ira Glass (host of This American Life), or do a clean sweep of Sober Valley Lodge.
The "Bill Simmons" of ATQ
Neither was Pat Kilkenny an alum at UO
"What the hell was that?"
"Spaceball One, they've gone to plaid!"
Depends on how you define "alum".
From his bio:
A native of Heppner, Ore., Kilkenny attended the University of Oregon in the early 1970s. Later he served on the University of Oregon Athletic Department Advisory Board. He also served on the Board of Trustees for the University of Oregon Foundation from 1996 to 2000.
He may not be a graduate, but you can’t say his ties to the U aren’t significant.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
Some of those things are what I would call 'innovation'
Others—like private jets and customized cars—are more or less what anyone would do if they had bags and bags of money.
"I have a commanding voice." - Ed Orgeron
The street agents
Provided is a link tracing the history of Lyle’s and Flenory’s rise as street agents. Oregon aren’t their only clients.
http://www.shaggybevo.com/board/showthread.php/78847-Street-Agents-in-Texas
Interesting list of clients from that article
Patrick Peterson – LSU
RJ Jackson – LSU
Brandon Lafell – LSU
Terrence Tolliver – LSU
(seeing a theme here?)
Lache Seastrunk – Oregon (misdirection! I see what you did there.)
Shaun Lewis – Oklahoma State
Toney Hurd – Oklahoma State
Ahmad Dixon – Baylor Tennessee Baylor wins!
Mike Goodson – A&M
Martellus Bennett – A&M
Trent Richardson – Bama
Reggie Bush – USC
Joe McNight – USC
Trevon Randle – LSU
Wonder how many of those were active Texas recruiting targets?
Supposedly, Texas pulled Lache’s offer when they heard he was hooked up with Lyles.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
apparently our ridiculously good offense is part of our cheating.
This makes sense.
The irony is pretty rich here.
Anyone else find it…interesting that so many fans, writers, administrators, coaches, etc are so well versed in this subject? That they’re all “we know exactly who these people are and what the offer?” How exactly is that, now? We’re all a little…taken aback by these events but an awful lot of people are very much jaded to this issue. That Seminoles fan that was in here last night, he was suspiciously familiar with the entire subject and exactly how this works, no?
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 9:47 PM PST reply actions
Bud Elliot is probably the top guy on SBNation in terms of following recruiting. Their coverage is second is unmatched on the network. He should know what’s going on, even if his team may or may not be involved.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
Right. I don’t think we should be surprised that there are some folks who work closely in and around CFB recruiting who are well versed in the details and personalities of the business. Most of us have some bona fide area of expertise. For Bud Elliot, this is one of those areas.
Cal Bears football... Doing less with more since 2002.
Then I wonder about the "I am shocked! SHOCKED!!! to find gambling going on here!" attitude?
Maybe not particularly by him, but by so many others who obviously understand this side recruiting? Are so well versed?
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 11:03 PM PST up reply actions
Anyone else find it a little interesting that so many players connected with the same people went to LSU, yet zero is being said about them. Considering LSU and Oregon are on most people’s short lists for national title contenders next season, and they play each other at the start of next year…should the wild conspiracy theories be flying about diminishing Oregon before the LSU matchup, especially with ESPN fully invested in the SEC…
Since all the speculation about all this covers wild conspiracies with little evidence, why not toss my own wild baseless conspiracy theory as well.
It's the SEC, so it's just expected that they're dirty.
It’s more newsworthy when you can make accusations against a top program that’s been perceived as “clean.”
Think of high school. The class skank didn’t get as much gossip thrown her way as the Sally Rally ice princess who’s caught making out with a cheerleader under the bleachers. At least not at my school.
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
The auction for players will occur just minutes before kickoff.
If we want to keep LaMike or Harris, we’re going to have to make a high bid, but we could steal one of their guys too.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on Mar 4, 2011 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
Well, it's either child's play for the SEC or the fact that LSU didn't play in the title game.
Or bogart Seastrunk and Wallace from UT.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Mar 4, 2011 11:04 PM PST up reply actions
It's all about keeping pathetic little Oregon in its place.
It’s too late to do anything about LSU. But our success is recent enough that it’s a threat.
Texas just doesn’t want to share with anybody new. “There goes the neighborhood.”
Oregon Ducks. Undefeated during regular season vs SEC since 1977.
It will come.
'11: Minimum Goal: 9-3 Regular Season. Given FSU's non-con slate, don't care who the 9 are.
'10: 7th in offense, 41st in defense. Division Champions. 10-4. (6-3)
'09: 8th in offense, 88th in defense. 7-6 (4-4)
Tomahawk Nation: Nole-Holds-Barred Analysis of FSU Sports!
Follow Tomahawk Nation's Twitter feed!
Well the mudslinging is coming from ESPN, which has a TV deal with the SEC.
Not surprising they’d go after a non-SEC school first before their own.
It's spelled "A-R-R-O-G-A-N-T"
Addicted to Quack, home of Bill Musgrave, the best ever.
It's the amount of money that raises my eyebrows
I agree that paying for recruiting information is a legitimate expenditure for the athletic department. But $25,000? That’s about ten times more than I would have guessed it would cost for such information. It’s like that burrito place in Eugene back in the late ’80s that sold $12 burritos but you got a dime bag hidden under the burrito. (Urban legend, anyway — anybody else remember hearing about that place?)
Great read, Joe. Bonus points for the hilarious hyperlinks. You are the David Foster Wallace of ATQ.
I can understand the amount of money raising an eyebrow, but how much, on average does a program typically spend on acquiring accurate information and tailored highlights? My guess is more than $25k/year, but they do it through several packages.
One of the things that makes this whole situation interesting is that schools HAVE to obtain information through these agents, because a high school can tell a university “No. We won’t send you his information or highlight reels. We want this recruit to stay in-state.”
If Oregon is paying Lyles to steer recruits to Oregon or if Oregon is using Lyles to funnel money to the recruits, then we have a problem. We only have people on other message boards saying that’s what we are doing. I don’t think we’re doing either of these.
1. It would not be in Lyles’ best interest to steer recruits to any specific program. He obviously has an established relationship with Auburn, LSU, Texas A&M, among others. He would also be putting his entire business at risk.
2. Oregon’s transparency with the transactions makes the whole “funneling money” thing pretty difficult to believe.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-S-K-Y"
I still don't understand the issue.
What about this is a “grey area”? Are we to be surprised that a school pays tens of thousands of dollars for recruiting information?
Why is Will Lyles shady/sketchy/disreputable? About the most shady thing that I can tell so far regarding Will Lyles is that he hasn’t been saying anything, and that is hardly enough for anyone to make any substantial accusation.
It's spelled "S-H-U-F-E-L-T-S-K-Y"
Lyles had sex with a Japanese earthquake and steered the tsunami waves
to the west coast without making them equally available to the Atlantic and Gulf Coasts.
"WIN THE DAY!"
The PAc 10 has just asked Chip Kelly to control of the tsunami or NCAA investigators will be in Eugene.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
by Famous Duck on Mar 11, 2011 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
He could do it with a stare.
True story.
"WIN THE DAY!"
by DuckUntilDeath on Mar 11, 2011 12:58 PM PST reply actions
My first reply fail!
Awwwww!
"WIN THE DAY!"
by DuckUntilDeath on Mar 11, 2011 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
You just don't get around much....
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
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