History Tells Us That Kiko Alonso Might Play Yet...
After multiple mistakes and suspensions, most people wrote the young man off. He had been suspended for an entire season, he was an upperclassman, and he had just made too many mistakes for Chip to tolerate anything further. Think I'm talking about Alonso? Think again...
One game into his Senior season LeGarrette Blount's career appeared over. He had been in trouble before: fisticuffs in practice, failing to maintain weight, and so it went. Everybody knew the Bosie State debacle was the last straw and everybody was left to lament the season that might have been. Then something changed.
If nothing else Chip Kelly is a smart man. The son of an attorney, he presumably grew up in a household that valued insight and analytical reasoning. So, when Kelly learned through the help of counselors that Blount's issue was not decision making, but anger management, Kelly was willing to re-examine a young man's future based on a deeper understanding of the situation. Even at the cost of his own public image. It was true that Blount still threw that punch, but the why of the situation had changed. When Blount began responding to those he was working with, Kelly began to reconsider the year long suspension.
Kelly took a lot of heat for this, but who now would say Kelly was wrong? Blount's much talked about "plan" eventually lead to his reinstatement, and we were all told about how he had reformed himself. Most of us at the time had our doubts about how long that reformation would last. Yet, he survived a crazy NFL rookie season which began with an agreement to play in San Fransisco, followed by being cut by Tennessee, and eventually landing in Tampa Bay. Through all of this Blount kept his cool and remained focused. He even managed a 1,000 yard season. In hindsight Kelly was right, Blount did reform himself.
Last year Kiko Alonso made a terrible, dumb, rock head, immature decision to drive drunk. The internet was ablaze: fans called him an idiot, rival fans called him a criminal, even sports writers had to shake their head at the timing of Alonso's DUI (hours after Kelly had given a stern public announcement that behavioral issues would stop immediately). The odd timing of the incident was merely a footnote at the time, now it appears telling.
Suspension served, Alonso showed up to spring practice looking for redemption. He found it. He fought his way to the top of the depth chart, capping his camp off with a breakthrough performance at the spring game. Beat writers gave him praise, his coaches give him the thumbs up, and the depth chart gave him Casey's Matthews job. This was a young man who wanted to do the right thing. Then he was arrested for burglary, out of the blue.
Much like the DUI of a year ago, the most shocking thing concerning Alonso's arrest was the timing. Why on earth would he do this now? Burglary? What was he thinking? But that's the rub, he wasn't thinking at all, he was blacked out drunk. This isn't Masoli breaking into a frat house and stealing computer equipment (bad decision), this is a young man with a disease.
Alonso's poor decision was not burglary, it was taking that first drink. We have all met that person: perfectly reasonable and hardworking, the kind of person you can trust until their lips touch a bottle, then all bets are off. The question for Coach Kelly is if this new information warrants leniency in the same way Blount's anger management issues lead to a path to redemption rather than a path out of the locker room.
The first step towards redemption might have already come to pass. With an eye witness account, broken in door, and a sleeping Alonso, the burglary charge was an open and shut case. But the District Attorney let him off with trespass and criminal mischief, provided he swear off alcohol and complete a substantial substance abuse program. In the case of Kiko Alonso the courts have already ruled: this is a good kid with a disease/problem; he is not a thug.
Chip has yet to issue his own ruling on Kiko. But, when you consider Kelly's actions in the past when a legitimate underlying condition exists, it would not be out of character for "Big Balls Chip" to make yet another gutsy call. One that would put redemption and rehabilitation ahead of punishment. A popular decision? Not a chance. But if we know anything about Coach Kelly it is that he does not care about what's popular.
This is a FanPost and does not necessarily reflect the views of SB Nation or the Addicted To Quack Moderators. FanPost opinions are valued expressions of opinion by passionate and knowledgeable Oregon fans.
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a crazy NFL rookie season which began with an agreement to play in San Fransisco, followed by being cut by Tennessee, and eventually landing in Tampa Bay. Through all of this Blount kept his cool and remained focused. He even managed a 1,000 yard season. In hindsight Kelly was right, Blount did reform himself.
Good Analysis. That was a good read.
What you say really proves what Kelly’s suspension is doing. It gives him time to see that Alonso puts in the work to get himself the help he needs. Kelly is giving the guy the chance to improve himself. And like the Blount situation he again puts his own reputation (in the media and public perception) on the line for his charge.
Who needs normal sleep patterns?
by AcadianTraverse on May 8, 2011 12:22 AM PDT reply actions
@echo31
Lots of players get heated in practice, that’s football. Jarius Byrd once got kicked out of practice by Bellotti for something similar and nobody cared at the time or afterwords. That video, by itself, is weak evidence to suggest Blount has not made progress since the Boise State incident. Every effort has setbacks.
This is splitting hairs but I also seriously doubt that was a punch. It looks more like he palm thrusts the front of the guy’s facemask. With the power Blount can generate he would have broken his hand had he punched that helmet with a closed fist.
You’re right that a lot of players have heated moments in practice, but that video is eerily similar to the punch in Boise, and much like Alonso, Blount’s prior transgressions meant that he was under a microscope and he failed to keep his cool and did what all the naysayers said he would do. Sure, Blount made it through the NFL season without issue (so did probably 95% of NFL players), but let’s see what happens the rest of his career before we say that he has put his anger issues behind him. I, for one, hope he never has another meltdown and keeps running as well as he did last season, but only time will tell.
Coach Fisher said there had been 3 or 4 fights in their training camp....
That were just as heated or more than that one. He made it seem like it was something that happens on nearly every team, every year.
by NICKPAPAGEORGIOTHEDUCK on May 8, 2011 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions
How do you know he can generate force
not to pick a fight, but I’m a combat sports fan. When he hit Hout, he hit him right on the button at the bottom of the ear behind the jaw, there are nerves there that causes the limp effect. When he hit him blind in that spot, Hout hopped back up pretty quickly. It was well placed, but hardly had the power you describe.
So is the consensus excuse for Kiko on the site now that he has a disease?
I think its pretty pathetic that getting a DUI and suspended for your teams run to the National Championship isnt hitting rock bottom.
I guess how many suspensions is too many? If you are already suspended for 25% of your potential playing career for which you are receiving a scholarship for should you receive another chance? I am not saying lock him up and throw away the key, all I am saying is his football career should be over at Oregon.
But none of this would even matter to me if we were honest as fans. If it is LGB or LMJ you make excuses to keep them on the team. If it is a backup, walk-on DE you kick them off.
I always say give people a second chance after the second or third you become an enabler and part of the problem.
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
I tend to agree with you
Considering the timing and severity of his offenses, Kiko is being granted too much leniency by Chip if he’s not gone by the fall. A DUI is a serious crime, and he now has two more offenses under his belt. The Blount case is completely different. His problems were football related, he wasn’t caught getting drunk and stumbling into strangers’ houses and driving.
I’m sorry, but I just don’t see the parallels. Kiko’s problems are far more severe and concerning, and I think he’s lost the privilege of playing football at Oregon. As a Duck fan, I don’t want to see him go, because he’s a great player. But he doesn’t deserve to be playing football with his conduct off the field.
I hope Chip makes the right decision in this case. Blount earned his second chance. Kiko blew his.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
I agree with both of you, and I'm perplexed as to why he's not already gone.
I’ll trust Kelly knows more than I do and will make the right decision regarding his players and what is best for them. I’m sure he’s probably even talked with Kiko and his parents, so I’m not saying that Kelly is wrong… yet.
But I have to question what exactly is going on and why Kiko deserves a third chance.
Constantly making Daisy cry
The Daily Faberian
A poster on Moseley's blog brought up a good point...
I’d first like to state that IMO the key to all of this is that none of us have the slightest clue what the hell really happened…………What if Kiko was at a party along with half of the football team (I read somewhere that there was a party for Kenjon’s birthday) and was put in a bad position. It is possible that something like this could have happened and several guys on the team could have gone to Chip and explained the happenings of the evening and asked Chip not to kick him out.
Or maybe he just got really drunk by himself. Maybe he drinks everyday. Maybe he is the worst alcoholic we’ve had on the team in the last 10 years. From what I’ve read, none of have any clue. From what I’ve read, I haven’t even seen one person be able to 100% confirm that this kid has ever drank more than 2 days in his life (I’m not saying I believe this, I highly doubt it is true).
I just think there is a ton of speculating going on and that to say this is due to star power is a joke. We really aren’t that lacking for talent at MIKE. Clay played well there in the Rose Bowl. Looking at the spring game, the players on the white team seemed rather competent at the position. Go back and look at the kind of talent we had at MIKE even as recently as the famed 2007 season and you will see that Stuckey and Clay (shoot even Jennings and some of the other guys) are every bit if (I would argue uncomparably more) talented than John Bacon and some of those guys.
When I was at school one of my buddies Brent Haberly played backer for us and saved the Arizona game for us after Clemens got hurt with a fumble recovery. He was a short, well built kid with good football instincts. But he wasn’t the athlete that these kids are. I’m sure he would tell you that himself. Whatever Kelly is basing his decision on, I highly doubt it has ANYTHING to do with Kiko’s position on the depth chart. Masoli was a Heisman candidate and Holland was an ankle sprain away from being a starting receiver and he gave them both the boot!
by NICKPAPAGEORGIOTHEDUCK on May 8, 2011 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions
It's all about personal responsibility
I’m sorry, but 99.9999% of the time you have to be doing something monumentally stupid to get arrested and charged for serious crimes, especially from two separate instances. It’s pretty obvious what happened, because he’s already pled guilty to recent charges. Nobody is denying that he screwed up more than once. The bottom line is that Kiko, if he had learned his lesson from the first time, should not have put himself in any situation that might jeopardize his football career.
These guys, while many of us wouldn’t consider them adults, should have enough wherewithal to avoid committing criminal acts, especially after they have already screwed up once. There’s no question that people should be held accountable for their actions. It doesn’t matter what position Kiko was put in, he made a choice and he screwed up. There are always consequences to bad decisions.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
I agree with everything you said. I still don't think that means he must be booted.
I don’t think 2 screw ups means you are gone. Chip has shown he will act swiftly if merited. I’m gonna take the plunge and faithfully assume that Chip knows something that I don’t, and you don’t, know. And who knows, maybe he still will get the boot.
If Chip sends him packing I’m going to assume that whatever it was that happened that I don’t know about warranted him being kicked off the team. I’m not saying I will always blindly believe what Chip does is ALWAYS right without thinking about it; I’m just saying that in this case I don’t feel I (or anyone who doesn’t know Kiko) has enough info to really say that he is a true alcoholic.
Getting drunk and doing something stupid on two occasions does not meet any clinical/medical/psychological definition of alcoholic. It may meet the criterium of being a dumb ass and not learning from your mistakes, but we don’t really know that Kiko is an alcoholic with this HUGE problem, like many people are assuming.
All that said, I do agree that he should have learned his lesson, and that he didn’t. I am just as curious as the next die-hard-Ducks fan to know how this will play out.
by NICKPAPAGEORGIOTHEDUCK on May 8, 2011 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions
I don't know that whether or not he is an alcoholic matters
It’s the committing crimes part that makes this a huge deal, and it’s what should get him kicked off the team. Chip is sending the wrong message if he suspends someone for the year for a poorly timed DUI, and then doesn’t kick the guy off the team for his next serious foul up. That’s where I think we differ on this.
I don’t think there should be a set number of screw ups to merit someone being dismissed, but the timing and severity of these two offenses makes me feel like Kiko is better off somewhere else. It’s hard to support someone who says they’ve changed and have grown wiser, then a week later decides to break into someone’s house.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
Decided to break into someone's house?
I dont think that is what happened, from what I can tell he thought it was his house.
Tenant: “you have the wrong house”
Kiko: “No I dont”
at least thats what I read…
you are right
he also decided he wasnt over the legal limit so not his fault.
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
So he didn’t make the decision to break into someone’s house because he thought it was his own, even though it clearly wasn’t, and the tenant even told him so? And even though he breaks down a locked door to a stranger’s house, because he’s too impaired to realize it’s not his own house, that makes it not his fault or decision? I don’t know what you call it, but I call that breaking and entering. Do you realize at any point he could’ve decided, maybe I shouldn’t break the door down, or maybe I should call somebody for help?
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
Do you realize at any point he could’ve decided, maybe I shouldn’t break the door down, or maybe I should call somebody for help?
Do YOU realize that his decision making capabilities were inoperable?Such is the nature of alcohol on the nervous system of the acute alcoholic (I refer you to other posts later in this ATQ FanPost for reference) and he may have had only one drink.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
You don’t get a free pass to do whatever you want just because you’ve been drinking. That’s not how it works. It doesn’t matter that his decision making capabilities were inoperable, if he lost control after one drink, it’s still his fault. He’s the one that took the drink and he’s still responsible for all of his actions. I’m not going to feel sorry for this guy because he was given an opportunity after the DUI to reform, and he didn’t. We’ve all screwed up in life sometimes, but the point is learning from it. He obviously didn’t.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
Again, I refer you to arguments already discussed below.
And, I repeat. If the diagnosis of alcoholism had been made after the first offense (not many doctors would do this after just one offense) you would be correct. You do not have to feel sorry for him in any case but I suggest to you again that no one would want a fatal, incurable, progressive disease and to find that one is thus afflicted, especially at the prime of life, would be quite a shock. We, as fellow sufferers on this planet might at least try to be kind.
In order for him to be reinstated to any sense of normalcy in his life as he knew it, it is going to take a lot of strength and encourage from all around him,
. He will emerge a better man. Take credit for being part of his recovery.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
I should say that I don’t feel sorry for him being suspended and not being able to play football. However, I do hope for his recovery and reform. We’re all human, we make mistakes, and one of the most satisfying parts of living is becoming better for it. I will be rooting for him.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
Thank you. That's good enuf for me.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
Meh.
Kids are stupid. Alcoholic kids are seriously messed up. The failure here isn’t just with a 20-year-old. His parents, friends, coaches, and teammates needed to really step up. Sad but true. Sure, he has to do the hard work, but he is just a kid, away from home, and seemingly with a serious problem. Why not consider how hard it would be for YOU to juggle school, football, and battling alcoholism a thousand miles from home at the age of 19 or 20 before you cast the kid aside.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on May 11, 2011 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I rec'd your post and............
I’m of a mind that says that we ALL ought to step up. I know that we have issues with guys getting in trouble and ‘ruining’ OUR football team, but we are part of this team. I remember before the Stanford game last year and the woman asked Chip before the game how he was feeling or something like that and he replied something like, “How could you NOT be excited in an atmosphere like this?” pointing to the crown assembled. We ARE THAT CROWD! Then and now. I am sure that Kiko is doing his best as are his pals in the locker room. Pray for him, say something encouraging to him on your favorite blog, write him a letter, be a friend, please, for whatever your reason is.
p.s. I think that I saw the O line doing voluntary workouts on Pape Field this morning.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
by Famous Duck on May 11, 2011 10:18 PM PDT up reply actions
So is the consensus excuse for Kiko on the site now that he has a disease?
Pretty sure most people think that Alonso should be kicked off the team. There are a few that are making excuses. They seem to be the minority.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
Here's the thing
if there’s the CHANCE he does have a disease, we can’t cut ties completely with the kid, unless he’s got a good support system elsewhere to help him with his problem.
If we’re the best support system he’ll have during his road to recovery, we have the responsibility to be there for him IMO.
The "Bill Simmons" of ATQ
The Oregon athletic department isn’t AA. It’s not set up for that type of support.
Oregon should do what they can to help him get the support he needs, but I don’t think the football team has any part in that.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
if they dont want him ther then release him from his scholarship
I could care less if he ever plays again, but releasing him before they attempt to get him help with any issues he may have mentally, addiction, medical, etc is the wrong move. He is part of the football team, so it should fall on the football team to get him help.
#88
He is part of the football team, so it should fall on the football team to get him help.
No, it’s not. It’s Kiko Alonso’s (and his families) responsibility to get himself help. Chip Kelly will no doubt do the right thing and aid in that process, but there is no responsibility on Kelly or the athletic department.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
Wow. I would NOT like to be on your team.
IMO, everyone one of us has to either be a help or a hindrance or be indifferent. Everyone of us needs help in some way, i believe. If you fell down, even if I didn’t know you (and I don’t) but I just happened to be there, I would help you up. I consider that part of my responsibility as a citizen of the world. Alterius alterium auxilio eget……….grumble grumble grumble.
p.s. I heard it said that the opposite of love is not hate; the opposite of love is indifference.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
Spare me the ill-informed judgement
I wasn’t saying that Chip Kelly shouldn’t do anything. In fact, my comment specificly stated I thought Kelly would “do the right thing” and aid in Alonso’s rehabilitation.
But my judgement on what is right and wrong has nothing to do with the universities’ responsibility to Alonso. They owe him nothing. In fact, it’s Alonso that is in the debt of Kelly and the university.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
Just going by what I read in your post.
The second post changes not my opinion. And further, I say that I am trying act responsible and you come back and say that I’m being judgmental? OK. Ill-informed? Quite possibly. You are undoubtedly better informed than I. And I’d still help you up and feel that is was/is my duty and my pleasure.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
I think you might be misinterpreting jtlight's post
The football program and Chip Kelly have no obligation to get Kiko help. It’s not their responsibility to put him through rehab, etc. I don’t think he should be part of the football team given his transgressions. Ultimately, it’s Kiko’s responsibility to help himself and he should be doing that away from football. I’m sure that Chip and the program will give him every opportunity to get help, but the onus is on Kiko. That’s all jtlight’s saying here.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
I understand that and I still disagree.
What if he had a broken arm?
What if he caught the measles and the resulting fever put him in crisis?
He has a disease, my friends. I am pretty sure that no one would ask for a progressive, fatal (life threatening), andincurable disease. When the disease manifests itself in a human being, the symptoms are usually repulsive (look at the many posts describing Kiko.)
I am not just saying that Ck and the UofO are responsible for him acquiring the disease; this is not a situation which either needs or is improved by blame. The treatment of alcoholism, like most other disease treatments is improved markedly by NOT blaming, and improved by providing support, encouragement and understanding. The parable of the Good Samaritan is quite applicable here..
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
when does the support, encouragement, and understanding enable the addict
Is that after the first DUI or when you break into someone house?
When is Kiko actually going to change his behavior?
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 6:57 AM PDT up reply actions
Two Good questions (the one in the middle reeked of sarcasm)
when does the support, encouragement, and understanding enable the addict
In the Diagnoses and treatment of alcoholism we first have the precipitating incident(s), then the diagnosis which is followed by treatment. Enabling can happen at ANY time in this process and even before (Oh, you’re OK now, you can have a beer—not a good thing because alcoholics are set-off with ANY alcohol.) Or after treatment (Hey man, you are big and strong, skip your meeting and come to the movies with us—not good because recovering alkies need their support meetings with other recovering alcoholics.) Enabling is doing something that really does NOT support or encourage the alcoholic to do what is best.
When is Kiko actually going to change his behavior?I would guess that his behavior has already changed, that change precipitated by the judge who sent him for an assessment and treatment. The assessment process is of itself, part of the treatment. Kiko will understand that drinking alcohol is simply not an option for him, now or ever. Much of treatment will then be to educate him on various dangers, situations, physiology and learning to accept his diseased status and how to ask for help. Living without drinking is fairly easy when one knows how and why. If his behavior THEN is not commensurate with the standards of the university and the football program, it would, at that time (not now) become his responsibility because he had been given that chance and choice and decided to go his own way; in essence, he had already ‘left the team.’
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
Alcoholism:
It can excuse anyone for anything. As long as they were drunk.
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions
Alcoholism does not excuse anyone of anything; nor does it condemn.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
The problem with this viewpoint
Is that there is no personal accountability at all. He’s broken laws on two occasions, and whether he was an alcoholic committing those crimes is not an excuse. This is Kiko’s personal issue and he needs to be responsible for his actions. Nobody is going to be able to tell him to stop unless HE wants to. Being supportive and being obligated to put him through rehab are two completely different things. I think Chip and the football team can be supportive with Kiko no longer able to play football. IMO, the football team has no business putting Kiko through rehab, because it’s Kiko’s personal issue, and he’s lost his privileges of playing football by not following the code of conduct that’s expected of all student athletes.
The problem I’ve always had with alcohol being labeled a disease is the fact that the word “disease” implies there is no control over the situation. It just is a state of existence that cannot be fought. That is complete bullshit with respect to alcoholism. The choice is clear and simple, if you are prone to binging, don’t drink alcohol. There should be no excuses. Being an alcoholic is certainly not an excuse for committing crimes that endanger the lives of others. Support, encouragement, and understanding are wonderful and necessary, but empowerment, personal responsibility, and self-action are far more important.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
In your opinion, and YOU are welcome to it.
Your argument though, is not with me. Your argument is with the finest medical minds in the world, over five decades of experience, numerous court cases and quite simply,rational thinking. The biggest drawback to your argument though is this; it simply does not work. Tthis discovery of treating alcoholism as a disease, like an allergy, following centuries of
alcoholics sufferring humiliation
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
continued
and painful death without hope. As I write to you, I can see that the ‘just don’t drink’ theory of alcohol treatment is still attempting to receive recognition. Many of us wish that your plan would work; unfortunately, it does not.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
See B Money's posts below
What you’re saying is somewhat like giving a blank check for an alcoholic to do whatever they want while intoxicated. He’s not being suspended for alcoholism. He’s being suspended because of what he did while intoxicated. I’m not trying to convince you that alcoholism is not a disease, rather I’m trying to make the point that just because someone doesn’t have the facilities to make rational decisions doesn’t excuse actions that endanger the lives of others. Alcoholism deserves support, empathy, and compassion, but when the alcoholism puts others’ lives at risk, that crosses the line.
Prince: This bores me. Is anyone up for a game of basketball?
Do we even know that he is an alcoholic?
It seems that we are making a LOT of assumptions in this case. Sorry Famous Duck but your presumption that Mr. Kiko is an alcoholic holds no more weight than my assessment that he is a dumbass. Unless you are a medical health professional that has examined him, your opinion is likely more based off your own personal experiences.
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions
My profession experience, explained else where, suggests strongly that a positive alcoholic diagnosis will be forthcoming, yes, and my statements, as explained ARE based on that assumption.
I also assume that from my writing you can deduce that I have more than just personal experience in this field.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
I am somewhat shocked that if you have professional experience
you would be so quick to offer a diagnosis you have never talked to, never examined, and dont really know anything about other than he plays for the ducks and drinks.
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
Mr Hansen,
I did NOT offer a diagnosis and, you test my patience. Read the various posts which I have offered, carefully.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
by Famous Duck on May 11, 2011 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions
Really
He has a disease, my friends.
your own words buddy
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions
I am not just saying that Ck and the UofO are responsible for him acquiring the disease
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions
Your mind is clearly mad up that you are right.
I believe my opinion will be validated for the reasons stated.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
by Famous Duck on May 11, 2011 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions
You should say it is your opinion then
and nothing more
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 10:42 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok, I can live with that.
I can even add wishful thinking; there’s another obvious mistake.
How have you messed up today?
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
by Famous Duck on May 11, 2011 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions
Well
I got into this conversation with you. That was a huge mistake on my part.
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wow.
I think its pretty pathetic that getting a DUI and suspended for your teams run to the National Championship isnt hitting rock bottom.
Wow. For some people with mental and/or substance abuse problems that’s not even a speed-bump. If the guy is an alcoholic (which you seem to think is an “excuse.” I would suggest becoming intimately knowledgeable about his actual pathology then study the difference between an “excuse” and a “reason” before passing judgement), something like a DUI might not even register, especially when the “suspension” happens to coincide with a season-ending injury.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on May 11, 2011 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would suggest becoming intimately knowledgeable about his actual pathology
as you clearly are?
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Star power has nothing to do with it...
We didn’t exactly need Blount when we brought him back.. Lamike was en-route to a record setting season and between Barner, Masoli, Crenshaw, and Alston we had a well rounded backfield. Blount was not brought back on an excuse because we couldn’t produce on the ground without him.
The troublemaker we needed back the most, Masoli, was given the boot. Granted Thomas made us forget about Masoli, but that doesn’t change the fact that, at the time, the loss of Masoli was a big deal. To say that your thesis amounts to rewriting history is an understatement.
As for questioning if alcoholism is a disease…. well if you don’t want to take my word for it I suggest you voice your complaints to the American Medical Association. Alcoholism IS a disease, both medical and psychiatric. It has been recognized as such for over a half century.
Disagree all you want (plenty of room to), I like both the banter and the comments, but don’t attempt to rewrite history of reclassify medical conditions…
I would wait to see what happens to that backup QB of yours
before I make that judgement. Because unless I’m mistaken, Alonso got the harshest punishment last year out of that window of problems (at least for first time offenders). I think he was the only one who wasn’t a starter as well.
Also, alcoholism is a disease, but an avoidable disease. It’s become a crutch for people to blame their indiscretions on. We wouldn’t excuse somebody for committing crimes after huffing a fat gacker of coke…so why should we for a guy who drinks when he’s had prior problems controlling himself.
I didn't read his comment as saying that "alcoholism is a disease, so it's not his fault." I thought he was just saying that, yes, some people do have problems with alcohol, and they need help.
It’s not like he can plead “drunk” and get off his charges.
THE GENTLEMAN WILL SIT! THE GENTLEMAN IS CORRECT IN SITTING!
I think people forget that Alonso...
injured his ACL. In hindsight, this played to his detriment in making the suspension a teaching moment. He mentally wrote the year off. I believe in a “three strikes and you’re out policy” personally. Strike one could be an aberration, strike two brings to light an issue that should try to be corrected with rehabilitation and consequences and strike three is punitive. If this had been another DUII, I think there is no question. However, he got intoxicated and went home to what he thought was his home and went to sleep. Breaking the glass was obviously poor judgement and at strike two there is a problem. I honestly think you do something similar to Blount and see if he meets some steps to reinstatement.
Juju is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Although...
felony convictions should jump you to strike 3.
Juju is the same yesterday and today and forever.
You bring up a good point in the ACL thing that no one has really mentioned.
Had he been healthy all last season he likely would have had a different mindset during the year. Not saying this is an excuse, but it is hard logic to argue with.
Having a blown knee is a bigger priority in your brain than some extrinsic form of punishment.
As I’ve made clear, I don’t think he needs to be booted. I am curious if he was even the drunkest kid on the football team that night. Kaddu could have been just as drunk, as could many other players who have had run-ins with alcohol-related trouble over the past year or two, and just because they didn’t get caught no one will ever know.
One thing I am learning from all of this is how OBSESSED our fan base is. God I love this football team and our head coach. But I don’t love it because we all the sudden have the coolest uniforms and are winning (granted I wasn’t around for the real bad years). I have loved it since I went to school there because I have a sense of pride. Whether we are 5-6 or 12-0 I must repeat: “GO DUCKS” and “IN CHIP I TRUST!!!”
by NICKPAPAGEORGIOTHEDUCK on May 8, 2011 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions
It doesn't matter a whole lot who was the drunkest kid that night.
At minimum, it matters much less than what really matters, and that is the fact that the guy forcibly broke into another persons house.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on May 8, 2011 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions
You have a great point here, As does Bill.
Both of your guys’ perspectives are very accurate, and I hadn’t thought of things exactly in that light.
I guess my thesis belief is that he screwed up. He should have known better and he didn’t. You guys are right that he f’d up big time. I am not one of those saying I think he has a disease. I am just saying I don’t think any of us know exactly what happened. However, you guys are correct that there is enough info known to convincingly argue that what exactly happened doesn’t matter. The fact is that he did break into the house.
I guess I just don’t feel that it is imperative that he be kicked off the team. Other than this feeling of mine, your guys’ opinions are probably more accurate and more along the lines of what the opinions of society should be like.
by NICKPAPAGEORGIOTHEDUCK on May 9, 2011 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions
I love you sugar boogar.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on May 9, 2011 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions
The ACL definetly cut the legs out from underneath the suspension
But, does anybody actually believe he would have had a year long suspension had his DUI arrest occurred a month earlier?
It wasn't just the DUI
he was allegedly trying to break into someone’s car when they arrested him, but charges weren’t pressed on that issue.
The "Bill Simmons" of ATQ
I think any comparisons to Blount are misguided.
There’s a big difference between punching somebody when provoked, and breaking into somebody’s house. Blount had a whole different issue with self-control than Alonso apparently does, and I think the punishment should reflect that. I think Kiko should go, and I hope he gets his act together. Unless there are issues that we don’t know about and chip does, he deserves the boot.
Before we annoint Alonso with a disease...
let’s wait for the alchohol assessment that is assurdley being done as part of his plea bargain.
Juju is the same yesterday and today and forever.
His lawyer already stated that he “had a problem with alcohol.” Seems like that’s pretty much been admitted.
--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog
One thing is clear; few who have posted here understand alcoholism.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
I've battled addiction and have family who still have problems
Which is why I have zero patience for it.
Being a drunk college kid and an alcoholic are two vastly different things. He’s proven to be at least one of these things. I’d leave the second one for him to conclude.
Yes DUI’s are serious but I’d wager a lot of cash that 95% of people here have either done it or let a good friend do it.
Just like with any disciplinary action, I don’t think it’s right for a head coach to abandon a kid when they’ve promised their family to help turn them into men just because they might take heat for it on the Internet. Whatever the situation ends up resulting in, I hope he lands on his feet. I’m fine if that means blasting some poor slot receiver or never putting on a uniform again.
Life is about growth. People are not perfect when they're 21 years old. - Bill Walton
by NEP on May 9, 2011 8:53 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
When a person commits an offense, a first offense, under the effects of alcohol or other drug, this is unlikely to result in a diagnostic offering of alcoholism. But, on a subsequent offense, especially one which seems to announce repetitive situational aberrant thinking,
a tentative diagnosis of alcoholism may be rendered and treatment recommended. A positive outcome as the result of treatment usually indicates a correct diagnosis.
And, if a person commits a crime under the influence of a debilitating disease previously undiagnosed, it is difficult to assess criminal liability against the infirmed (think seizure resulting in auto accident of an undiagnosed epileptic.)
The American Medical Association has considered alcoholism to be a disease since 1956. This dis-ease is like diabetes in which the metabolism of certain substance(s) indicates an abnormal body chemistry which compromises physical and mental functioning. If an undiagnosed diabetic urinated on the mayor’s office rug, he wouldn’t be condemned or jailed although he would be obliged to pay for carpet cleaning and accept treatment for his condition.
So it should be for our football friend, Mr. Alonso. Punishment of any kind simply is not indicated; treatment, ongoing maintenance and restitution are indicated. If alcoholism is diagnosed and I am certain that it will be, we are then dealing with a medical situation and not a moral dilemma.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
You are so off it's painful, diabetes and alcoholism cannot be comapred
As an undiagnosed alcoholic is comsuming a substance that is known to impair, while the exact opposite is true of diabetes (with insulin actually enabling the person to function). Alcoholics don’t have a problem metabolising liquer, they have a problem consuming liquer regardless of consequences that may come about as a result. That is what separates a drinker from an alcoholic or a partier from an addict. He blatantly disregarded logic by drinking past his limit (again), in the face of consequences (legal or athletic).
Laws have made it clear to every person in developed countries that alcohol can be dangerous, just like any other controlled substance. I battled with drugs, and only when I decided it was time to quit, was any sort of treatment viable. I hope this kid finds what makes him happy, because treatment is only treatment if the person is willing to accept it.
Thank you Mr. Money for your reply. I think that I have discovered the source of your confusion;
In diabetes, insulin IS the treatment, not the substance which is difficult for the body to metabolize. Endogenous insulin is insufficient in the body to metabolize SUGARs properly and treatment consist of either stimulating the pancreas to secrete more insulin or injecting a proper amount required to normalize blood sugar levels simply put. Never-the-less, it is a metabolic disease with disquieting and fatal consequences if not treated. Treatment must be vigilant and persistent because the disease does not sleep. Diet, we must remember is also part of any sensible treatment regimen.
Contrary to your opinion above, alcoholics DO have difficulty with the metabolism of alcohol. Normal people can drink without impunity and when their bodies breakdown ethanol (drinking alcohol) carbon dioxide (that gas which all of us exhale each breath) and acetic acid (dilute vinegar) are the metabolites (the products which remain.) When the alcoholic metabolizes ethanol the main metabolite is ACETONE. Acetone is caustic to the neurons causing an allergic reaction of extreme dis-ease/pain that requires immediate pain relief which can be found briefly in the form of …….wait for it….what’s the nearest pain reliever at hand?….you guessed it, it’s ALCOHOL, the consumption of which causes more pain, confusion, disorientation until the person passes out. Most of the body’s neurons are of course in the brain. Lots of vinegar remaining the next morning can cause quite a hangover but nothing like acetone residue. So, for an alcoholic, many of us say, One drink is too many and a thousand never enough.
I am in sympathy with you for your pain and the trauma in your family life and, I too battled, seemingly everything and everyone. But while reasonable treatment for an alcoholic can be painful, there is hope in finding out that one is not alone and one does NOT have to be ashamed of being an alcoholic any more than being ashamed of being a diabetic.
And lastly you stated that he “blatantly disregarded logic by drinking past his limit (again).” This would be true IF he had been diagnosed previously of BEING an alcoholic and I stated above that on a first offense it is not likely than anyone would be willing to make that call. I’m sure that you can see why.
If you refuse this explanation then must must want the reason for alcoholism to be moral deficiency; a case of being wrong. You might be right about that, Mr. Money but I have seen or heard nothing to indicate that Mr. Alonso was accepted here at Oregon having poor moral values. Really, I find that absurd and painful for me to believe.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
But he's previously been punished for DUI
I understand why alcoholics drink, just as I understand why addicts use. You’re right about the science behind why addicts use, but that still does not excuse illegal behavior. He’s been previously punished for problems related to drinking, and while he may be undiagnosed as of the date he has a history and has to know better. Personal responsibilty is lost on this generation, if he can not seek treatment for the pain that causes him to drink, then at some point it’s soley on him for not addressing his problem.
You are actually wrong about alcoholics and the metabolism of liquor.
My guess is that you know little to nothing about genetics. There is a lot of current research in the area of genetic alterations and addiction. It has been demonstrated that people with genetic mutations involving small changes in the genetic sequences at specific loci called SNP’s (single nucleotide polymorphisms) are more prone to addiction. For example, those with SNPs in the gene coding for nicotinic receptors are more likely to become severely addicted to cigarettes.
Not trying to go all fancy-shmancy on you, but if you are gonna be on here acting like you know exactly what you are talking about, then please provide some factual data. At the very least, don’t contradict what is known.
I’m not saying it is my opinion that this is the case with Kiko, but, don’t throw famous duck’s argument under the bus with statements that aren’t based in fact.
by NICKPAPAGEORGIOTHEDUCK on May 10, 2011 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions
You're correct in assuming I know almost nothing about genetics
but I know about addiction. FWIW I come from an Irish and Native American (Inuit) heritage. I started smoking at 12 and did my first stint in rehab when I was 14. By the time I was 16, I had done a couple and none of them helped at all. It took me (and only me) deciding that I was done hurting those around me, in order to stop. Can I call all the times I used research? That’s a pretty factual argument. I spent enough time going through the hell that is withdrawal, to know a thing or two. Because I decided to quit, instead of being lead to useless treatment after useless treatment, I am able today to be able to celebrate 10 years of drug free sobriety by having a beer. I know my limit, and have control over myself to not succumb to the pressure. I have friends who have to start their lives entirely over at 25 years old because of heroin. They can’t drink or smoke, and they know that, so they don’t. If they relapse, they know it’s because they value the feeling of being high more than the feelings of their loved ones. I don’t feel any sympathy for anyone who does that, maybe I’m just cold hearted.
At some point, people have to be held responsible for their actions, and can’t use addiction as a crutch. There is an apologist attitude towards alcoholics, but not towards other addicts. If i was still smoking, had I dropped a cigarette and killed a family in a car accident, I couldn’t use nicotine addiction as a crutch. It’s a real danger, that is perfectly legal. Alcoholics don’t even have that excuse, as being drunk outside of your home, in almost any capacity, is a crime. What about texting and driving? If I kill a family, can I claim a cell phone addiction? I imagine that for some people, texting and social media can cause chemical imbalances similar to sex addicts. So why can’t you ask for lienency from the court.
“Sentence me to phone rehab and probation and I promise it won’t happen again”There simply HAS to be a point at which people are held responsible, and as long as people feel sorry for addicts, that time will never come.
Great point. I agree with what you are saying.
And furthermore, congrats on having the will power to get sober on your own. That is what has to happen with anyone who is addicted, as you certainly know. No rehab program in the world will work if the person doesn’t want to quit.
And yes, your personal experiences with addiction hold more merit than any research in the world, because those experiences are real. Best of luck to you.
I guess my question to you then becomes: Why do you think it is imperative that he be kicked off the football team? I see that it is imperative he be punished in a court of law; as this is where our society has decided to enact punishment for unethical/anti-social behavior. However, in my mind, I don’t draw from that the necessity of him never playing football again.
You seem to be bringing a calm and rather objective opinion to the discussion so I am curious to see what you think about this.
by NICKPAPAGEORGIOTHEDUCK on May 10, 2011 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't find it imperative, it's not that black and white to me
The bigger question for me is, is Eugene and the UO Football program a healthy place for him to be. For me, dealing with it in high school, I was more addicted to my friends and the pursuit of awesomeness than I was to the drugs. The drugs became the issue, but that set of people was the root problem, so I left it. I suspect this will be Kiko’s issue as well. If the team goes out drinking, can he decline? Will the team even invite him? If he can’t, then he needs to be done with football, or go to a place like BYU where drinking is discouraged and he can find the right support system within football. If Chip, Kiko and his family decide that the Football program can be a place where he has support to get better, than he needs to stay. If it’s not then he needs to go, plain and simple. With all that said, I think it’s pretty clearly a place that’s not conducive to sobriety. So, in my personal opinion, he should probably be dismissed.
It also begs the question about Chip. I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt in this case (at least in a vacuum from the rest of the issues), but if he puts his neck out and lets him stay, it would be open season on his ability to “mold men” and to be a temporary father for these kids if Kiko screws up.
Yea, as Matt pointed out, this is a great comment.
Probably the best description I’ve heard of what could/should happen.
You are right that if Chip puts his neck out there for Kiko and Kiko screws up again, it WILL make Chip look like he isn’t a staunch disciplinarian. I hadn’t really thought of that. In that sense it wouldn’t be letting Kiko keep playing that would send the wrong message, but moreso, that if Kiko screws up Chip would look silly.
by NICKPAPAGEORGIOTHEDUCK on May 10, 2011 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions
I wonder where you came up with THIS idea;
I
think it’s pretty clearly a place that’s not conducive to sobriety
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
Well, seeing as you've had
1) A LB with 2 alcohol related incidents in a 1 year span.
2) A kicker who got his face kicked in during a bar fight
3) A potential All-American QB who got kicked off the team after being found with marijuana
I haven’t really researched this case, but it sounds like Kiko was out with the team drinking…so that’s another strike. I was speaking mostly to his situation, and I’m not here to slight UO, but the program has had some alcohol related offenses in the not to distant past. For somebody who needs to stay sober, it doesn’t seem like a terrific environment for that.
I didn't take it as a slight to Oregon, personally
I saw it more as college lifestyle and football player at major university is not conducive to sobriety, especially someone struggling to get sober.
Constantly making Daisy cry
The Daily Faberian
so its college?
Life is about growth. People are not perfect when they're 21 years old. - Bill Walton
I'm thinking Mr. Money, that if they all do all of that drinking that they would
certainly welcome the idea and personage of a designated driver, you think?
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
Fuskies have a problem spelling, “liquor.”
"WIN THE DAY!"
by DuckUntilDeath on May 11, 2011 3:19 PM PDT up reply actions
You fail to understand the nature of alcoholism
All your talk of laws and consequences and the like is meaningless to an alcoholic.
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on May 11, 2011 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
and you fail to realize that he may not be an alcoholic
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
And you condemn that man that says that Kiko may be ill......hmmmm?
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
by Famous Duck on May 11, 2011 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions
so your logic is...
DUI + breaking into someone’s house while drunk = alcoholism?
If you have any other information do share
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Why else would he do it? To piss off his coach, team, parents and you?
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
by Famous Duck on May 11, 2011 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions
calm down
why do you need to find a reason? real life isnt that simple
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 10:48 PM PDT up reply actions
All behavior is purposeful.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
I don't get the people here who are so defensive about Alonso
if he gets another chance, good for him. But he’s made his bed, and I’m not really sure why he’s not already gone. I’m not feeling bad for Kiko Alonso.
--Dave
Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog
by David Piper on May 10, 2011 8:52 AM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I don't think people are defensive about Alonso really
The strong emotions appear to be more about alcoholism at this point.
Absurdity is my favorite.
Yeah, Alonso is the one that really gets defensive.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
The idea has crossed my mind that it might be a good time to shut down comments on this thread.
Absurdity is my favorite.
We wuz jes havin' fun, darlin'.
(after all, he wuz the arguably best defender in the spring game) Ooops, that’s gonna start another argu discussion.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
If Kiko is LGB, who is LMJ?
Who’s going to step in and light it up?
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on May 11, 2011 6:59 PM PDT reply actions
This is Eugene we are talking about, everybody's lighting it up.
Take a doo doo pie. I love you.
by Bill Musgrave on May 11, 2011 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
Some fundamental misunderstanding in this thread.
1) Some people here seem to expect rational behavior from individuals who by definition are not rational.
2) Alcoholics aren’t people who drink. Alcoholism is their entire identity.
3) Defining alcoholic behavior by your own expectations of behavior is missing the entire point.
Alcoholics build their entire lives around their disease. I guarantee each and every one of you that you work or hang out with or go to school with an alcoholic and you have no clue to this fact. There is almost certainly at the very least one regular on this forum who is an alcoholic. Not “someone who drinks to much” or “who has a bit of a drinking problem” but a full-on, never-spends-a-waking-moment-sober alcoholic. Trying to assign what you imagine would be rock-bottom is an empty and uninformed gesture. Thinking that being an alcoholic is a choice, likewise. Thinking that one DUI or 12-step is just the ticket is also ill-informed. Applying what is known to you to their situation is futile. I know that an ibuprofen will soothe my aching muscles or headache. Am then I correct if I say it will get rid of cancer?
Fuck you, Juju. We'll do it ourselves.
by BigGreenWreckingMachine on May 11, 2011 8:52 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
We dont know that Kiko is an alcoholic
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions
And, you don't know that he's not.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
by Famous Duck on May 11, 2011 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions
clap, clap
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions
ah pointless internet conversation
Why is Andrea Kramer trying to eye fuck me?
My name is not Bryce.
by Im Chris Hansen on May 11, 2011 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions
Are you drunk?
You seem to be defending something……..? What is it?
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
by Famous Duck on May 11, 2011 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions
That's redundant.
Our Acrobatics & Tumbling team can beat up your Acrobatics & Tumbling team.
Addicted to Quack, where Matt Daddy can't fall asleep unless a grown man in drag sings "Daisy Bell" to him.
What does clap, clap mean?
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
by Famous Duck on May 11, 2011 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions
What does The Flow of Seed mean?
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
by Famous Duck on May 12, 2011 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions
It's an old term for The Clap
by NICKPAPAGEORGIOTHEDUCK on May 12, 2011 12:43 PM PDT up reply actions
Damn, alright! Thanx. I'm getting an education on ATQ! Damn. Or did I just get the claps?
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
Nope, I don't think you just got it. Well, wait...
does it burn when you go pee? If not, then you are probably ok.
by NICKPAPAGEORGIOTHEDUCK on May 12, 2011 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions
Whew. Wait a minute. Are you qualified to make a diagnosis? (smiling)
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY
Being an addict is not a choice
Drinking or using in the face of it is. It may be a hard choice, but it’s a choice to indulge none the less.
It is worthwhile to reference the Mike Parker incident here
Have you been watching this? Notice nobody blames him for eating a napkin? Nobody thinks its his fault that he ate the napkin. He embarrassed both the university and his radio station but nobody wants to fire him. They all want him to get help so he can continue the things that he’s doing, not claim he lost his privilege to do them.
I AM NOT trying to equate burglary with eating paper. However, why the nurturing nature for one person and a vindictive nature for another with the exact same diagnosis? The only person who is calling Mike Parker an embarrassment is Mike himself, and that’s what a stand up guy does. My point is this: in determining how you are to be dealt with what should come fist? The things you do while affected, or the underlying reason for why you did them? It seems we have two very different opinions about the exact same disease and each is based on conduct which the person in question would neither engage in normally. IMO, with people like both Alonso and Parker, we need to counts “strikes” by the drinks they take, not by the loss of control they endure which is a tragic side effect of alcoholism.
by Cpassmore on May 11, 2011 9:51 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
So, here's the new deal upcoming:
When Hamani Stevens gets here; Kiko will now going to be Hamani’s roomie. Hamani will be the author and the FINAL authority of Kiko’s social calendar. (Good choice say I)
Further, sources close to OSU say that all broadcasters need to run their high fiber diets through the Athletic Director’s office.
"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

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