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Tako Tuesdays: Selfish

Good luck DT, and thanks for everything.

On Saturday, Darron Thomas forwent his final year of eligibility at Oregon to take his chances in the NFL draft. I wasn't expecting the announcement; in fact, I had already gone so far as to start the Darron Thomas Heisman Trophy campaign in last week's edition. My initial reaction was that is was a stupid decision, that DT is a late-round draft choice at best, and that he was killing any chance at an Oregon national title run. My feelings at the time were a mixture of anger, disappointment, and confusion. My current feeling on the subject is that I'm a selfish prick for feeling that way.

Star-divide

Fans of professional teams get to be selfish. Pro athletes get paid millions of dollars, get to change teams to whichever they choose, and with all that freedom comes a little scrutiny. Not so with college athletes. They have a 4-5 year window of time to spend at their alma mater, and it's in those 4-5 years that they become who they will be for the rest of their lives. In addition to working hard to succeed on the field, student-athletes have the same academic responsibility as every other student on campus, and still must find time for family and friends. College football players in particular have become pawns in a giant game of "Which University President, TV Executive, and Head Coach Can Make the Most Money?", so it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone when a player, who is scheduled to graduate from college, want to move on and join the adult world. Let me reiterate: Darron Thomas went to college for four years, and will leave with an undergraduate degree. While he was busy doing that, he found the time to lead Oregon to two consecutive BCS bowls, come within a whisker of a national title, and bring a Rose Bowl title back to Eugene for the first time in almost a century. No big deal.

Was Darron Thomas going to turn himself into a top-round draft pick in 2012? No. Whether it's now or a year from now, he's going to be a project quarterback in the League. Is this year's QB class weaker than next year's? It's looking that way. So Darron Thomas is the guy who gets his degree, and gives himself what he believes to be the best chance at landing a job. But Oregon fans want to see him backpack through Europe for six months, "finding himself", and taking some really sweet-ass pictures in Instanbul.

It's a risk, there's no denying that. It's an aggressive decision, one that could backfire. Kind of like the Oregon offense. But if he's confident in his decision, and feels he can overcome the obstacles in front of him, then Chip Kelly's tutelage, his philosophy towards his players and their future, has paid off. The Oregon football program, to some degree, helped mold Darron Thomas into a man who feels ready to face the world. And, let's not forget, that's kind of what college sports is supposed to be about.

Oregon's offense is losing the most successful quarterback in program history. Without Darron Thomas, a 21-3 deficit against Stanford stays a deficit. Without Darron Thomas, we don't even have a chance in the fourth quarter against Auburn. Without Darron Thomas, the Oregon Ducks do not win the Rose Bowl. And any talk that the Ducks are better off without him is ridiculous. But, as fans, we have to move on. DT's made his decision, and I hope he's given the chance to shine at the next level. Do I wish Darron Thomas was going to be the Ducks quarterback for one more year? Absolutely. But I want that for selfish reasons. And that's not fair to DT. He deserves a better send off than what he's received.

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yes he does

the lack of love for DT has been astounding.

--Dave

Addicted to Quack, your friendly, neighborhood Oregon Ducks blog

by David Piper on Jan 17, 2012 9:03 AM PST reply actions   2 recs

I think there was a lot of shocked reactions when he announced

no one was even considering he would leave and it came out of the blue. It is human nature to get defensive when we get surprised and feel slighted. Also, internet comment boards are a place full of trolls, fools and the functionally illiterate (ATQ excluded of course). These factors combined to make the reaction more vitriolic than deserved, and to over-represent the negative element in our fan base.
That being said, Spring practices just got much more interesting!

by OregonNYC on Jan 17, 2012 9:17 AM PST up reply actions  

We're changing as a fan base, it makes me sad.

This guy deserves nothing but our gratitude.

For Oregon, King Kelly, and St Quack!

by DamienS on Jan 17, 2012 10:25 AM PST up reply actions  

I think we are changing as a fan base

Sad but inevitable.

We’re becoming the douchey fans we hated at other schools.

by eloomis20 on Jan 17, 2012 11:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I think so much of the backlash has been due to shock

That does not excuse the poor behavior and petty meanness that we’ve seen, but it is perhaps an explanation. No one was surprised by LMJs announcement because we all knew he was seriously considering the NFL. Everyone was shocked by DTs annoucement since it didn’t even seem as if it was on the table. People often react viscerally when surprised by bad news.

Certainly, people need to grow up and maintain their composure, but the fact that DT waited until the last minute to announce surprising information had much to do with the reaction.

ATQ's #1 fan of WINNING THE ROSE BOWL

by daisyduck on Jan 17, 2012 9:17 AM PST reply actions  

We've all gotten very, very spoiled over the last decade plus...

I guess success breeds that.

"It's not that I can't help these people, it's just that... I don't want to." - Lawrence Bourne, III

by soddruntlestuntle on Jan 17, 2012 9:20 AM PST reply actions  

Perhaps

We’ll find out the next time we have a losing season.

If ya can't get your Dick Enright, get your Dick Harter!

by Old Ducker on Jan 17, 2012 7:36 PM PST up reply actions  

The more I think about his decision, the more sense it makes.

Staying another year probably wouldn’t improve his draft status. It may even hurt it, based on the other quarterbacks that will be in next year’s draft. He’s got his degree (or close to it), and he’s basically got a high-paying job lined up, even if he goes as an undrafted free agent. He’s leaving college in a better situation than most students.

The only reason to stay would be to get his name in more record books and possibly earn another Bowl ring. Financial security is a lot more valuable than those things.

"You could almost imagine Ducks coach Chip Kelly walking to midfield among the bloodied Bruins and shouting in his best gladiator voice, 'Are you not entertained?'" - Ted Miller

by CougarDuck on Jan 17, 2012 9:52 AM PST reply actions  

One other thing I neglected to mention.

We’re thinking that anything less than the NFL is a failure. Even if DT goes undrafted, doesnt make an NFL team, and finds a team in Canada, the Arena league, or Europe, he’s still getting paid a bunch of money to play football. And that sounds like a pretty sweet deal. I think we as fans assume every player has NFL-or-bust aspirations, and that just isn’t the case.

Addicted to Quack
Death before chastity!

by Takimoto on Jan 17, 2012 10:07 AM PST via iPhone app reply actions   1 recs

That's what I'm talkin' aboot!

I’d love to be paid a nice wage for having fun half the year.

My initials have an invisible umlaut.

by DuckUntilDeath on Jan 17, 2012 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Everyone just assumed that he would return.

Darron never said he would return (but to be fair, he never said he was considering leaving either).

We were wrong. And that’s what you get for making assumptions.

I understand the hurt/shock but how can you not wish him well? He brought home the Rose Bowl.

My parents believed in me.

by flyduckfly on Jan 17, 2012 10:21 AM PST reply actions  

He actually did say he would return, according to Moseley and others.

Right after the Rose Bowl, both to the media and to his teammates. Now, I’m perfectly fine with him changing his mind and I don’t wish him ill at all, just passing on what I’ve heard.

Got the shoes. Got the jersey. And finally, got football. Go Ducks.

(Good call, Daisy)

by lovemyducks81 on Jan 17, 2012 10:39 AM PST up reply actions  

I must have missed that

I take it all back, Darron’s a jerk for changing his mind!

My parents believed in me.

by flyduckfly on Jan 17, 2012 10:45 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes, one of the reasons it was a big surprise was that he had said he would return.

But of course, events in the post-season changed his mind, as they should, because they significantly altered the draft landscape. He’d be an idiot not to take that into account and re-evaluate his position.

Oregon loves you, Chip Kelly!

by gamedaytribe on Jan 17, 2012 11:00 AM PST up reply actions  

Haha

GregBigginsGreg Biggins
Hearing it’s a done deal, Cal’s Eric Kiesau will be new WR coach at #Washington, another big hire
11 minutes ago FavoriteRetweetReply

I think I found another fanbase that hates us more than you guys!

There will never be a Husky free Northwest...never.

by ALLpurpleEVERYTHING on Jan 17, 2012 10:56 AM PST reply actions  

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Ok, this is just getting funny now.

--AddictedToQuack, SBNation's Oregon Ducks blog

by jtlight on Jan 17, 2012 10:58 AM PST up reply actions  

.

My initials have an invisible umlaut.

by DuckUntilDeath on Jan 17, 2012 11:03 AM PST up reply actions  

Don't hate on Twist

he’s more fun than Sideshow Bob.

ATQ's #1 fan of WINNING THE ROSE BOWL

by daisyduck on Jan 17, 2012 11:12 AM PST up reply actions  

This is like watching your neighbors on Jerry Springer

So far, UW kicking Cal’s ass. I think Jerry’s security guards are going to have to intervene.

ATQ's #1 fan of WINNING THE ROSE BOWL

by daisyduck on Jan 17, 2012 11:09 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

LAR-RY! LAR-RY! LAR-RY! LAR-RY!

My initials have an invisible umlaut.

by DuckUntilDeath on Jan 17, 2012 11:16 AM PST up reply actions  

I think I found another fanbase that hates us more than you guys!

Somewhere, somehow, a Duck is watching you.

by omb on Jan 17, 2012 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

yep

All these new hires might work out. I can live with that. Fuskies probably can’t, unfortunately, suck forever.

But if they don’t, if, for instance, the Wilcox who coached against us at UT shows up (rather than the mastermind of fBSU), then revisiting this current husky Hubris will be fun

scrappy

by Honka Playboy on Jan 17, 2012 11:46 AM PST up reply actions  

Gah!
Fuskies probably can’t, unfortunately, suck forever.

As the saying goes, “SHUT YOUR WHORE MOUTH!”

Ducks GOOOOD. Fuskies BAAAAAD.

by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Jan 17, 2012 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Well said.

Oregon loves you, Chip Kelly!

by gamedaytribe on Jan 17, 2012 5:48 PM PST up reply actions  

I have

all the respect in the world for DT. He’s a good kid and obviously a good leader (unless you ask the clown) but do alot of you really feel comfortable with BB or the other qb? Those first four games should be great for either QB to get a feel of leading the offense.

There will never be a Husky free Northwest...never.

by ALLpurpleEVERYTHING on Jan 17, 2012 11:02 AM PST up reply actions  

I have a lot of confidence in BB

and am excited to see what MM can do. There’s always a part of me that is nervous because we haven’t seen Bennett be the QB for a full season and Mariota looks good on tape, but we haven’t seen him at this level. So yes, I think we’ll be just fine. But I miss DT already.

"It's not about style. It's about winning the game. That's it." - Chip Kelly

by Duckfanatic10 on Jan 17, 2012 11:06 AM PST up reply actions  

People throwin' rocks at BB? The guy is "the future of Oregon football." A quote by Chip Kelly his-own-self.

I watched the BB throw bb’s in practice during his first year here, on his own time and with many of the rest of his class.
There is not a ball that he cannot throw and throw well. He’s a gym rat like Boyette, good with his mates and tuff than a Kansas cob. The most fearsome thing that I saw on the practice field last year was when he ran the option sweep with DAT on his outside. They went around the end and the title of the movie coulda been “FAST and FASTer.” The only thing that came close to those two was watching a pair of F-14 fighter planes doing a swoop and dive.
We’re in good hands and this is going to be fun.

"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

by Famous Duck on Jan 17, 2012 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

The issue is not and is never arm strength

Give me a QB with not the best arm strength who can make decisions well over a QB who can make all the throws but doesn’t make the right ones. It’s the difference between Locker and Thomas, or for that matter Locker and Price.

Arm strength (especially in college) is significantly overrated.

Bennett is definitely a good runner. He looks like a decent QB. I’m most concerned with decision making, mostly because it’s hard to get a good decision maker.

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 2:50 PM PST up reply actions  

So, you have some information that projects that he can't make good decisions?

/kelly’sfullashit

"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

by Famous Duck on Jan 17, 2012 3:03 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know one way or another

But I haven’t seen it. I have seen him make significantly worse decisions than DT did in games, but that was with limited information. It’s quite possible he’s as good if not better.

My point, simply, is that physical attributes are not the reason he should get the starting role. They weren’t when DT had it either; DT had leadership and decision making and made great choices on the field (off of it is another question). It remains to be seen about Bennett, or Mariota for that matter.

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 3:18 PM PST up reply actions  

True dat, and, it's really nice to have guy with all the physical skill AND the attitude with which to succeed.

The way the Oregon practices, BB already has jillions of reps in recognizing coverages and proper decision making, of this I am sure. He’ll have everything he needs ‘From Chip Kelly’s Restaurant.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjKF7aQthcQ

"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

by Famous Duck on Jan 17, 2012 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I really like BB's attitude as well.

To be fair, he hasn’t had as much time in the system as DT did. IIRC, he really good at selling the mesh point until the very last second.

My initials have an invisible umlaut.

by DuckUntilDeath on Jan 17, 2012 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

He rides it well

This was something DT didn’t do at all, and it meant that almost always the defensive player that was being read didn’t commit, which meant that DT handed off. With Masoli and Tebow (and Bennett) you’ll see them ride that mesh for a step or two which causes more of a commitment, and then pull it out.

At the same time it’s hard to argue that you wouldn’t want it in LMJ’s hands more when running :)

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 3:41 PM PST up reply actions  

It may be something he cuts down on if we're facing a strong defense.

A DT, DE, LB, OR DB could come in and attack the mesh point.

My initials have an invisible umlaut.

by DuckUntilDeath on Jan 17, 2012 3:49 PM PST up reply actions  

If that's getting close, it MUST be time for the roll out pass, yet another thing at which he excells.

"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

by Famous Duck on Jan 17, 2012 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

Riding it is actually better in that case

As you’re not a stationary target.

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Wha...? (I learned that from DUD, the Man with the invisible umlaut)
As you’re not a stationary target.

Rolling out would seem to me to be a lot less ‘stationary’ than holding a mesh point.

"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

by Famous Duck on Jan 17, 2012 4:04 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes

My point is that riding the mesh point means that it’s harder to attack the mesh point.

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 4:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Okay

I mean the QB does not stand still with the mesh and hand off right away or take the ball right away (like DT does), but runs with the RB along their route for a couple of steps and takes it out in a longer period of time.

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 4:20 PM PST up reply actions  

Good. We are working with the same definition.

As I explained below, and we all witnessed in the Natty last year, Fairley began to attack the mesh point after being duped one too many times.

My initials have an invisible umlaut.

by DuckUntilDeath on Jan 17, 2012 4:26 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes

And I’m saying that when you’re moving with the RB that’s harder to do.

DT doesn’t do that very often if at all. Probably, honestly, because he’s not nearly as fast as LMJ or Barner and can’t ride it without slowing them down.

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 4:27 PM PST up reply actions  

That's possible, but the more likely explanation is that most Dlines weren't getting that level of penetration.

Sadly, DT “didn’t” do that very often.

Also, how long were you thinking the QB and RB would “run together”? In theory, the mesh point only needs to be held long enough for the player being read to commit. The longer the mesh point is held, the longer the defense has a chance to compensate and readjust to the play.

My initials have an invisible umlaut.

by DuckUntilDeath on Jan 17, 2012 4:32 PM PST up reply actions  

I remember a play run by Nevada

when they were in Autzen where the QB literally ran (or kinda shuffled) with the RB for at least 5-7 yards sideways. It was the funniest thing I’ve ever seen, because they were just a big moving ball of “tackle me!” for our Defense.

15-yard penalty for my avatar. /Pereira'd

by Brass-billed on Jan 18, 2012 4:45 AM PST up reply actions  

I think he means how long the QB holds the ball in the RB's breadbasket before making his decision.

He’s still making his read “at the mesh,” that’s why the RB has to receive the ball but not “take it” from the QB.

Ducks GOOOOD. Fuskies BAAAAAD.

by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Jan 17, 2012 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks, I got it.

I wanted to make sure we were defining it the same way.

My initials have an invisible umlaut.

by DuckUntilDeath on Jan 17, 2012 4:26 PM PST up reply actions  

It wasn't in the Natty. "Dirty Nick" became frustrated by his selected target not having the ball, so he began to attack the mesh point (with some success, I might add).

To do this, a team needs coaching and the personnel that can get into the backfield. I don’t see anyone other than USC having the personnel to do this. That doesn’t mean they’ll be able to pull it off.

My initials have an invisible umlaut.

by DuckUntilDeath on Jan 17, 2012 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes.

Thomas had the entire offense available to him and could be relied on to make the right decisions. Bennett had a narrower version of the playbook (basically IZR, OZR, basic play-action) and that was it. He did fine, but he didn’t have to do a LOT. 2-5 against Azzy State and a couple nice runs, then a solid effort against a bad Buff team at their lowest point. There’s not enough to go on as far as his ability to run the team week-to-week.

Ducks GOOOOD. Fuskies BAAAAAD.

by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Jan 17, 2012 3:37 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm not sure exactly what you are saying here:
Thomas had the entire offense available to him and could be relied on to make the right decisions. Bennett had a narrower version of the playbook (basically IZR, OZR, basic play-action) and that was it.

Are you suggesting that that’s all that he knew, or all that he had practiced, or all that they wanted him to use in that particular game situation?

"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

by Famous Duck on Jan 17, 2012 4:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Yes.

Helfrich said as much. They called plays out of a much narrower playbook for Bennett. Not because he’s stupid or didn’t know the playbook, but because it’s a lot to put on a kid who got limited snaps with the 1’s. Things are different in games than in practice. Against Colorado he probably had more variety since he had time as QB1 in practice.

Ducks GOOOOD. Fuskies BAAAAAD.

by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Jan 17, 2012 4:10 PM PST up reply actions  

You clever, BGWM. I ask a multiple choice question and you give me a Yes or No answer. Can't lose.
but because it’s a lot to put on a kid who got limited snaps with the 1’s.

I suggest that you’ve seen very few Oregon practices. You may be right, he may get fewer snaps but not by much, certainly not ‘limited’ as it might be in other programs. He knows every play, he runs every play multiple times in practice. DT may have gotten 80 reps and BB with ‘only’ 75 but they were close.
My sig kind of states it. The only reason that they didn’t open the entire playbook is because they didn’t NEED to open it. BB could have fun and run the show and nothing gets exposed that doesn’t need to be exposed. The coaches are building success in the person, on the team, in the program, the university and the community.

"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

by Famous Duck on Jan 17, 2012 4:22 PM PST up reply actions  

That is incorrect.

To suggest that BB was in every way capable of running the offense the second DT went down isn’t correct. And if you’re suggesting BB got multiple snaps of every play with the #1 offense during the season (except vs. Colorado), that is also incorrect. Your tag is well and fine, and I’m sure they do strive for it, but those are words. Reality is different. They purposefully restricted the plays they called for Bennett BECAUSE that gave him the best chance to succeed. It’s not because “they didn’t need it,” it’s because it’s what was best. Helfrich said it himself. They didn’t want to put too much stuff in there for a first-time starter, and certainly didn’t want to throw in the kitchen sink when he had to come in cold against a top-25 team in a game that was far from decided.

Ducks GOOOOD. Fuskies BAAAAAD.

by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Jan 17, 2012 4:29 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't mind being wrong, and that is NOT what I said or implied.
To suggest that BB was in every way capable of running the offense the second DT went down isn’t correct.

That isn’t what I said but IF I had said that, I may have been incorrect, I don’t know. I was suggesting that Bennett was well prepared, not better that Thomas but well prepared whatever came up.

The other part, about snaps and plays, about that, I AM correct, correct enuf not to even argue about it further. If you wish to disagree and can do it with either experience or attributable references, I will be both surprise and edified.

Further, you failed to address the first point which shows me that you primarily feel the need to be right or you forgot. Anyhow, I need to withdraw.

"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

by Famous Duck on Jan 17, 2012 5:23 PM PST up reply actions  

Helfrich said after CU that they limited the plays available.

Ran the base offense. Don’t you think that was to put Bennett in the best position to succeed? I don’t know why this sounds controversial to you.

Ducks GOOOOD. Fuskies BAAAAAD.

by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Jan 17, 2012 5:37 PM PST up reply actions  

That part is agreeable with me. The rest, not so much.

And it’s not contrary to what I was saying above and, I don’t know why that seemed so controversial to you.

"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

by Famous Duck on Jan 17, 2012 8:11 PM PST up reply actions  

I've been following this conversation

and I really have no idea what you two are arguing about anymore.

15-yard penalty for my avatar. /Pereira'd

by Brass-billed on Jan 18, 2012 4:49 AM PST up reply actions  

Nor do I.

Sorry, FD. Give us a kiss.

Ducks GOOOOD. Fuskies BAAAAAD.

by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Jan 18, 2012 10:37 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

smoochy x 2

"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

by Famous Duck on Jan 18, 2012 11:16 AM PST up reply actions   1 recs

The back-ups are good enough that I have no problem envisioning us being 8-0 till we meet SC.

We were hugely lucky about the puffy OOC this year. But Oregon is a fanbase that has slowly, in the Chip Kelly era, been increasingly nudged upwards to the higher expectations end of the scale. In 2009, frankly, we were happy just to get to the RB, especially after the first game of the Kelly era in which we got upended by Boise.

So, it’s not just a matter of being able to beat the ave PAC-12 team anymore. We need someone seasoned, experienced and talented enough who’ll be able to make the throws against the best defenses in the country with 2 mins left and we need a TD to win. Someone who can compete in the BCS final, in a BCS bowl game. Under pressure. Facing the best (see LSU).

We need a qb who can beat SC twice this year, and beat whoever comes up in the RB, or even, stars aligning, the Natty. We have high standards. Those kind of quarterbacks get that way with a lot of practice, experience and good coaching.

Bennett and Mariota have the athletic skills to do it. I don’t know if they’ll have acquired the mental and the game-knowhow, the game-poise to perform at their hest under the most severe of pressures. It’s a huge challenge, and it will be fun, of course, but I know I’m going to need a defibrillator and my pepto bismol stock along the way.

Oregon loves you, Chip Kelly!

by gamedaytribe on Jan 17, 2012 11:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Bennett and Mariota seem to more closely represent the ideal "Oregon Spread Option" quarterback.

They are both faster and more athletic than DT. BUT one has to understand that DT had the entire Kelly playbook available to him and generally made the correct decisions with the ball in his hands. And he was a heck of a leader on the field (I have no personal knowledge of his leadership abilities off the field). My hope is that we come out of fall camp with a clear “winner” in the competition. I have zero reservations about Chip’s ability to groom a new QB. Dixon, Masoli, and DT all came in as raw unknowns and each took the program to new heights (Dixon of course winning the Heisman and leading us to our first national title in 2007, despite a mild knee injury that kept him out of a few plays against Arizona).

Ducks GOOOOD. Fuskies BAAAAAD.

by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Jan 17, 2012 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

I agree.
My hope is that we come out of fall camp with a clear "winner" in the competition.

I do however hope that we don’t have a clear winner out of fall camp, as long as it’s because they’re both playing well, not cause they are both struggling. It’s been nice the last couple years to have a backup we were confident in.

"It's not about style. It's about winning the game. That's it." - Chip Kelly

by Duckfanatic10 on Jan 17, 2012 11:32 AM PST up reply actions  

Yes, that was my meaning.

Nobody wants it to be the one with the fewest problems running the offense, but rather one who clearly demonstrates he’s ready to step up and take the reins.

Ducks GOOOOD. Fuskies BAAAAAD.

by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Jan 17, 2012 11:48 AM PST up reply actions  

Comfortable? Kidna

This is the offense that turned Jeremiah Masoli into a nationally recognized name. And honestly, he wasn’t that good.

I am not comfortable losing DT; he ran the Oregon offense amazingly well. One of the things I want to do is figure out some of the less-obvious measurables that DT does well that we miss because we don’t tend to attribute to him – things like the number of sacks he took, for instance (which was absurdly low compared to Masoli). I strongly believe that he was a great point guard in this offense, and while he couldn’t throw it amazingly like Dixon he did everything else so much better that it didn’t matter.

But I also have some faith now that we can reload, not just rebuild.

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

I don't know how you measure the "worth" of a sack.

On the one hand, DT made his reads quickly and got the ball the hell out of there. On the other hand, Masoli worked at stretching plays and finding the open guy. Not only that, but being that he took the ball on the read more often, he also got dropped behind the LOS more often and because he was the QB it counts as a sack even if it was a run play.

But yeah, DT had the entire offense available to him and ran it extremely efficiently. Is he the prototype of the Oregon spread QB? Maybe not, but he obviously did something right. His record certainly suggests it. The whole “system quarterback” thing is ridiculous anyway. Name a quarterback who doesn’t play in a system. Tom Brady doesn’t draw up plays in the dirt before every snap.

Ducks GOOOOD. Fuskies BAAAAAD.

by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Jan 17, 2012 2:15 PM PST up reply actions  

That's another thing I want to look at

How many negative yardage plays Oregon had in 2009 vs. 2010. Sack or loss of yards doesn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things; both hurt the Oregon offense tremendously.

Something we often credit Masoli on is taking the ball and running with it; I wonder now how often he made the wrong read and then made something of it anyway, and how much better we would have been if he had given it to LMJ instead.

Anyway, I’ll see if I can do that data crunch at some point.

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 2:52 PM PST up reply actions  

That would be an interesting thing to analyze:
both hurt the Oregon offense tremendously

.

Being argumentative, as you have flashed at me, I think your choice of the word emboldened above might be hyperbole.

"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

by Famous Duck on Jan 17, 2012 3:09 PM PST up reply actions  

It's not really

If you look at the S&P numbers Oregon’s offense flourishes when it has what is called ‘standard downs’ to go on – which means something like 1st and 10, 2nd and 7 or better, 3rd and 5 or better. The production plummets when put into passing downs. In 2011, for instance, we were third in the nation on standard downs as far as efficiency and production; we were 40th in the nation on passing downs. To put that in perspective, we were most similar to teams like Wisconsin and Baylor on standard downs.

We were most similar to Wake Forest and Western Michigan on passing downs. If that doesn’t sound that good, well, it isn’t.

Every time Oregon loses yards on a running play or a passing play puts us into passing downs. Therefore, every time we lose yards we turn from an offense that looks like the best in the nation to an offense that looks like it plays in the ACC or Big East – and not a good one, either.

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 3:22 PM PST up reply actions  

Those S&P numbers have had 'the boys' analyzing Oregon scratching their collective heads for several years now.

In listening to Chip talk about his offense, he seems to say that HE isn’t much concerned with yardage lost except by penalty. He ‘reads’ the defense by what they stress/do, what they do, whether we gain or lose yardage and projects his next play on what he sees (see FishDuck’s latest on the Rose Bowl plays.) So I, in paying attention to those two situations, think that yardage loss has some importance because it would seem to be more difficult to get 15 yards in two plays rather than 10 yards in three plays. Even that seems suspect in our offense in that TOP is nearly meaningless; we get the yards we need to get in the number of plays (or less) required.
That’s my point. From a classic football, it’s an easy point to debate but the Duck offense seems WAY different from classic college football, right.

"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

by Famous Duck on Jan 17, 2012 3:43 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually, S&P really loves the Ducks this year

So does FEI. Both see the Ducks as top 5 this year. Only last year was it confused (FEI was not), and that was primarily for a couple reasons:

S&P doesn’t weight turnovers very heavily, so if your team relies on getting turnovers they won’t look so great (and last year we got a lot more turnovers than this year)
S&P didn’t (in 2010) use special teams at all. Oregon had a LOT of success with special teams last year, setting up short fields and scoring more than this year.

Regardless it doesn’t matter because S&P looks at success rates, and that’s pretty universal. If Oregon has to turn it over on downs or punts, that’s a failure – and that happened a lot more when we were in passing downs than standard downs. If you go and look back on it this isn’t that weird of a concept, either; a lot of our 3 and outs happen when we have a bad first down (like a failed pass), followed by a short run and then have a long 3rd down to go. That’s what happened on every drive at Wisconsin. We were money in the bank when making a 3rd and 5; we were not nearly as successful on 3rd and 10 or when we were only going to pass the ball.

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 3:53 PM PST up reply actions  

You're changing your tune, my friend.
Actually, S&P really loves the Ducks this year

I agree with your statement, but your original position had to do with 2009-2010, que no?
We lost 3 games in the 2009 season, and one in the 2010 season. Obviously, the yardage losses were NOT tremendously important and, in those years, S&P, by their own admission were wondering WTF.

"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

by Famous Duck on Jan 17, 2012 4:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Uh,no

My original position had to do with the numbers for all the years. My original point was that it is likely that Oregon didn’t do as well under Masoli as they did under DT and one way you can see this is in the number of negative plays that they had.

I guess if you want to count ‘tremendously important’ as ‘losing the game’ then sure. That’s not what I meant.

Really, I think at this point you’re just randomly arguing with me because you want to. Which is fine; I’m happy to prove you wrong over and over as you see fit. Maybe I’ll try another tack: do you believe that losing yards is a positive or negative thing for the offense to do?

On stalled drives, do you believe that Oregon stalled more in standard downs or in passing downs?

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 4:16 PM PST up reply actions  

Though it's interesting

In 2009 S&P has Oregon almost equal at success on standard and passing downs. They got worse as a split in 2010 and much worse this year, which might coincide with the thought that DT’s gotten more inconsistent this year. Note also that the splits are pretty much even as far as overall value goes if you combine them, it’s just that they get more balanced to one than the other; in 2009 they were balanced; in 2010 they were leaning towards standard, and in 2011 they were heavily favoring standard.

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 4:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I suggest you watch FishDuck's videos on the inside and outside zone read plays.

In it, he states Chip tells the D where the play is going to go in an attempt to get them to overcommit. When they do, we make them pay with big, explosive plays. Many of the proponents or architects of advanced football statistics are frustrated by Oregon’s tendancy to not work in their models.

My initials have an invisible umlaut.

by DuckUntilDeath on Jan 17, 2012 3:44 PM PST up reply actions  

TWFDS

My initials have an invisible umlaut.

by DuckUntilDeath on Jan 17, 2012 3:44 PM PST up reply actions  

We sometimes make them pay

We also sometimes get bottled up and fail. This was the case in the USC game for a long period of time. It happened early against Oregon State too. Sometimes failures are just failures, plain and simple.

Oregon works perfectly fine in the S&P model and the FEI model. S&P was very confused by them last year, looking at some things like interceptions and fumbles and seeing nothing particularly great. It also hated that Oregon hung around against truly horrible teams like Washington State – which to be fair was pretty inexcusable given how bad WSU was last year.

Failures don’t hurt Oregon as much in the grand scheme of things because of the number of DRIVES Oregon has. They still hurt on an individual basis. Ask LSU how many explosive plays we had and whether it bothered them to get negative yard plays here and there.

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 3:57 PM PST up reply actions  

You should get a big man love tattoo

that says DARRON across your back.
No, it’s a really good idea, I swear.

ATQ's #1 fan of WINNING THE ROSE BOWL

by daisyduck on Jan 17, 2012 11:13 AM PST up reply actions  

It sound like there are no downsides to this decision!

Daisy, on the back of this brilliant idea, I’d like to hire you as my personal assistant.

by FromAutzenWithLove on Jan 17, 2012 11:18 AM PST up reply actions  

Great, you won't be sorry.

I’ve got lots of other good ideas for you. Next up, let’s run over to the bank real quick and empty out your savings account, k?

ATQ's #1 fan of WINNING THE ROSE BOWL

by daisyduck on Jan 17, 2012 11:23 AM PST up reply actions  

one downside

chest tats >>>>> back tats when expressing devotion

scrappy

by Honka Playboy on Jan 17, 2012 11:49 AM PST up reply actions  

you should

name him after me. After all, my name is Johnny Bravo.

There will never be a Husky free Northwest...never.

by ALLpurpleEVERYTHING on Jan 17, 2012 11:14 AM PST up reply actions  

good to be able to keep track of when your kids are born by tying then to an era. Mine were mostly born during crap eras.

Speed Endurance Talent is how Track Town USA plays football. Win The Day

by webfoot73 on Jan 17, 2012 2:04 PM PST up reply actions  

i am naming my daughter Rose...

Well at least middle naming her that when she gets here in March

by lostkauze on Jan 17, 2012 2:38 PM PST up reply actions  

awwww

That’s awesome.

Much better than naming her LaMichael, even though it’s a feminine name too.

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Congrats

but I can think of a better flower.
Just sayin’.

ATQ's #1 fan of WINNING THE ROSE BOWL

by daisyduck on Jan 17, 2012 3:46 PM PST up reply actions  

I don’t think “The Natty” is actually a flower.

Defending maligned chants since 2009

by Gorbachav5 on Jan 17, 2012 4:58 PM PST up reply actions   1 recs

You may be selfish, sir...

But you’re no putz!

My initials have an invisible umlaut.

by DuckUntilDeath on Jan 17, 2012 11:27 AM PST reply actions  

and more...

Being reported from California Kiesau is OC at Washington. Ryan Gorcey @RGBearTerritory Kiesau making 240k at #Cal. Will make between 700k-800k as OC at #UW on a 3yr contract.

There will never be a Husky free Northwest...never.

by ALLpurpleEVERYTHING on Jan 17, 2012 12:17 PM PST reply actions  

Wow.

That’s a lot of loot.

"I thought we were going to see an @ESPN highlight where (DT) was gonna rip the knee brace off...like Forrest Gump running down the field." Chip Kelly

by PondJunky on Jan 17, 2012 12:34 PM PST up reply actions  

No kidding

apparently we’re trying to out due Washington State’s offseason money spending and coach hires.

There will never be a Husky free Northwest...never.

by ALLpurpleEVERYTHING on Jan 17, 2012 12:53 PM PST up reply actions  

Apparently it was just tweeted

by Bob that the total is 700k-800k, not annualy.

There will never be a Husky free Northwest...never.

by ALLpurpleEVERYTHING on Jan 17, 2012 12:54 PM PST up reply actions  

This makes me smile.

"I thought we were going to see an @ESPN highlight where (DT) was gonna rip the knee brace off...like Forrest Gump running down the field." Chip Kelly

by PondJunky on Jan 17, 2012 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Never mind. I did.

If this were happening to the fusks, it would be beautiful, glorious schadenfreude. But since it’s ATQ South, it’s just sad.

Ducks GOOOOD. Fuskies BAAAAAD.

by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Jan 17, 2012 1:44 PM PST up reply actions  

It got worse

apparently, Lupoi didn’t just “go where the money/success was.” According to CGB, he’s done almost everything you’d expect a decent person in this situation NOT to do.

15-yard penalty for my avatar. /Pereira'd

by Brass-billed on Jan 18, 2012 4:52 AM PST up reply actions  

a double sided coin

On one side, DT is a great college QB. He definitely has some mechanical issues that are going to plague him at the next level (infact they did at this level). He has a long wind up for the longer throws and tends to throw off his back foot at times. Those can be over come with practice, and i am guessing those are what he is working on right now.
On the other side, he is a great athlete, he has attributes that can not be taught. he is a tremendous athlete and manages an offense as good as any other qb in the country, in fact, probably better than a lot of them, even the one being hailed as the greatest QB to ever touch a field.
With several high profile qb’s staying in school, he had to see his draft potential was at its highest point. Fact is, he edged Andrew Luck 2-0 and Nick Foles 2-0 and he went 1-1 against Matt Barkley and was barely edged by Cam “take it to the bank” Newton. His greatest performances were against the better defenses. He played very well against Auburn, USC, and Stanford, and he was no scrub against LSU.
I am sad to see him go and I was stunned when I heard he had decided to leave.

by Scrivley on Jan 17, 2012 3:34 PM PST reply actions   2 recs

A wonderful love story Rec on this one. Thanx, Scrivley

"What you are entrusted to do as a coach is to create an environment where your players have a chance to be successful." CHIP KELLY

by Famous Duck on Jan 17, 2012 3:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Actually, he is a good athlete, not a great one.

He was the third-best “athlete” at QB on the roster last year if you want to get down to brass tacks. Bennett and Mariota are both faster and more natural runners. It’s between the ears that he excelled. If you think about it, he wasn’t the most graceful of runner, he didn’t throw the prettiest ball, and often his guys had to make great plays on the ball to bring down passes he threw. But it’s easy enough to see how good his decision-making was by his extremely favorable TD:INT ratio and his low career sack total. Oh yeah, and his insane W/L record.

Ducks GOOOOD. Fuskies BAAAAAD.

by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Jan 17, 2012 3:58 PM PST up reply actions  

Byron Leftwhich is relatively slow and unathletic as far as QBs go. And his wind up was painfully slow to watch.

And he stuck around the league for a good number of years, including his time starting in Jacksonville.

That being said he could also throw it a mile.

I would rank DT’s athleticism above Byron, but never watched enough games to know if he was a good decision maker.

Who needs normal sleep patterns?

by AcadianTraverse on Jan 17, 2012 7:56 PM PST up reply actions  

Leftwich?

I think his biggest problem is that he was always injured.

Ducks GOOOOD. Fuskies BAAAAAD.

by BigGreenWreckingMachine on Jan 18, 2012 10:38 AM PST up reply actions  

Wow.

with all the plundering going on, are we sure that Leach is still head pirate in washington?

15-yard penalty for my avatar. /Pereira'd

by Brass-billed on Jan 17, 2012 3:58 PM PST reply actions  

Even pirates have honor

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 3:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Good insights to DT's possible Financial needs that swayed his decision

I knew the guy didn’t come from a wealthy family but as a star QB of an elite team, it must have been tough after practices

Not sure how to make the links pop up as a new window…

by skyo12 on Jan 17, 2012 4:25 PM PST reply actions  

The hell?

That site..ow

If I could kiss Nick Holt, I would. Though, with him, I’m sure it would end in deep penetration and a score

by kalon on Jan 17, 2012 4:26 PM PST up reply actions  

They're not the best journalists out there

But they have observe the players on a daily practices during the season and have the insights on their body language and other nuances as fans don’t get to see. Not sure what’s wrong with it?

Money definitely played into DT’s decision (rightfully so) and I thought it was interesting to hear DT’s reactions throughout the season after practices.

by skyo12 on Jan 17, 2012 4:45 PM PST up reply actions  

I think he was referring to the webpage and its layout

"I thought we were going to see an @ESPN highlight where (DT) was gonna rip the knee brace off...like Forrest Gump running down the field." Chip Kelly

by PondJunky on Jan 17, 2012 7:16 PM PST up reply actions  

I think the issue is that the site is visually WAY too overstimulating.

Also, when I think of those two, I don’t automatically jump to neon lights and fake GameDay sets. It’s the site that’s painful, not the journalists. At least, that’s my take on the issue.

Got the shoes. Got the jersey. And finally, got football. Go Ducks.

(Good call, Daisy)

by lovemyducks81 on Jan 17, 2012 4:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Less neon, more Frost

/amidoingitrite?

My initials have an invisible umlaut.

by DuckUntilDeath on Jan 17, 2012 4:58 PM PST up reply actions  

You are.

I actually have that painted on the wall above my door, like “Win The Day” at Autzen. It’s my life’s motto. I touch it every day before I head out to work.

Got the shoes. Got the jersey. And finally, got football. Go Ducks.

(Good call, Daisy)

by lovemyducks81 on Jan 17, 2012 5:00 PM PST up reply actions  

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